Hacker News Reader

Comment by sk1pper | Hacker News Reader

Let's not conflate human worth with value to society. I hope we can all agree that all human lives are of equal worth. We all have different strengths and weaknesses though, and some of us will have strengths that align more closely with what society needs.

We're lucky enough to live in a society that's (more or less) set up so that people are rewarded proportionally to how much they can contribute to everyone else. Of course it's not perfect, and of course there are assholes and corruption, but in context of history, it's the best deal we've ever had, IMO.

No, we shouldn't put down people who aren't very smart. We should help them. But I think we need to take a step back before we start saying that the (rough) meritocracy we have set up is some kind of dystopia. Can anyone actually provide a better alternative?

View on HN

> Let's not conflate human worth with value to society. I hope we can all agree that all human lives are of equal worth.

Reminds me of this passage from Sapeins:

"a human being who belongs to any particular culture must hold contradictory beliefs and be riven by incompatible values. It’s such an essential feature of any culture that it even has a name: cognitive dissonance. Cognitive dissonance is often considered a failure of the human psyche. In fact, it is a vital asset. Had people been unable to hold contradictory beliefs and values, it would probably have been impossible to establish and maintain any human culture."

The passage describes the benefit of having the ability to hold conflicting beliefs. Interestingly this is not what cognitive dissonance is. Cognitive dissonance is the uncomfortable feeling we have when our beliefs conflict. Research in this area shows that people are quite intolerant to this feeling and will tend to alter their beliefs to alleviate it. Cognitive dissonance actually prevents us from holding conflicting beliefs. This is the opposite of what the cited passage describes. Perhaps it is a translation issue as the source material was originally in Hebrew.

I read OP as "the ability to endure and be comfortable with cognitive dissonance".

All lives are not of equal worth. If that were the case the president wouldn't have a phalanx of Secret Service protecting him at all times.

They are of equal worth in a spiritual sense. Society doesn't put the same value on them but that's because of economy and the economic output their life generate for society. Value is subjective to who you think puts value to something. If there is a God, he doesn't care about economy. :)

> If there is a God, he doesn't care about economy.

If there is a God (or equivalent deity), he would be worth infinitely more than any other sapient being, thus disproving that all sapient beings are of equal worth even in a spiritual sense.

>If there is a God, he doesn't care about economy.

Generally, God does care about other things, though - so still not equal :-)

He'll lose almost all of that phalanx when he leaves office. What does that say about the value of his life? It's the continuity of the office we value, in this case.

Presidents have secret service protection for life. Bush took it away but Obama reinstated it.

Yes, I acknowledged that.

From the OP:

> Let's not conflate human worth with value to society.

You're mistaking value to society with human worth, the exact distinction the OP wanted to make clear.

Oh, you mean the guy who's the subject of a criminal investigation and has had half of his campaign taken down over money laundering, influence-peddling, and fraud? That guy? Weird example, but okay.

I was with you until the last two sentences. There are many better alternatives for at least parts of our society that haven't been given a chance. e.g. universal healthcare has been demonstrated as a better alternative in multiple forms and all other modern nations.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com