The World Wants More Camel Milk | Hacker News Reader

The World Wants More Camel Milk

bloomberg.com

21 pointslunchbreak44 comments

I wonder whether the camels will begin to be farmed intensively, the same as cows?

To get cows to produce milk for us, they are artificially inseminated or introduced to a bull once a year to produce a calf. If the calf is born female, she may be raised as part of the dairy herd. If the calf is male, it's off to the slaughterhouse or strapped into a pen the size of a cupboard for a few months before slaughter: that gives us veal. Three months after birth, the cow is inseminated again for the next year's cycle.

The cows are distressed at being separated from their newborn young, year on year, and most only live 4 to 5 years (natural lifespan would be around 18), before being sent to the slaughterhouse themselves: that gives us leather, cosmetics and a hundred other things.

This article misses out the most important part about Camel's milk. You can freeze it.

If you've ever tried freezing cow milk and thawing it you know it's ruined. But Camel milk can be frozen and thawed without changing the taste. I've had it a couple of times and, as a regular cow milk drinker, have a hard time telling the difference.

There is a camel dairy west of San Diego. They have tours one weekend a month if you want to go.

https://cameldairy.com/ — they also win the obvious url prize.

Apparently it is illegal for them to sell the milk for consumption, so they turn it into skin care products.

Wouldn’t the obvious URL be dromedairy.com :)

I believe you mean "east" of San Diego. Otherwise, I really hope camels can swim. :)

It's in Ramona, which is a small town in east SD county.

West of San Diego is an ocean, my friend.

It's to the northeast.

The world maybe, Germany certainly not. On our last German Perl user group meeting an old ex-organizer presented their struggles with the German authorities to import a small amount of camel milk to Germany from Israel. We wanted to make ice out of it, and we are obviously very fond of camels, being our mascot. Even if we got first permission to import camel milk, in the end the veterinarian refused to hand it over and it was destroyed in orderly fashion. We had to take the costs. I hope they will put up the YouTube video soon of this camel milk story.

Having been around camels, they can truly be foul tempered creatures (while 1% are quite lovely) and I do not envy anyone who works with them daily.

On a side note, I am going to go try some camel milk now. But this absolutely seems more like a fad then reality. I mean goats milk seems to have a solid market share (and I am a sucker for carrageenan free chocolate goats milk) but unless camel milk tastes like a fresh macaron, I don't know if I would go out of my way or pay a premium.

At least in France, goat milk is highly popular, same with sheep milk. We make so many cheese from it ! And we're not alone ! Plenty of cultures around the world make goat and sheep cheeses, they're delicious !

Other than that, I don't think anyone drink sheep (or goat) milk in France. I may be wrong, but I assume if anyone did that'd be pretty exceptional.

That being said, why am I commenting on camel milk articles when I should be finishing this program -.-

I do love goats milk cheese ! I think I’m going to have to make a Trader Joe’s run...

Good luck on your program!

These submarine articles are getting weirder and weirder

Camel meat is also delicious.

I live in Pakistan and tried it only once because it was so foul. It was straight from a farmer, though. I guess I'll try it again then. Thanks for convincing me random person on the internet!

So is this the new fad after almond and coconut milk?

Or does it also cater to people who are lactose intolerant? I wonder if I will be seeing Camel milk at a Starbucks soon.

Oat milk[1] is the next fad after soy, almond and coconut milk. These are mainly for people who are lactose intolerant, although perhaps some people who aren't lactose intolerant prefer a different taste for lattes or cappuccino drinks.

In the US I believe there’s now also another type of milk called A2 that doesn’t have certain forms of beta-casein proteins[2], which allegedly will help ease the discomfort lactose intolerant people feel after they ingest cow's milk.

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/19/style/oat-milk-coffee-oat...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A2_milk

Oat milk's actually quite nice. Seems to do much less "taste damage" toward espresso drinks than other nut milks.

It'll be the fad alt-milk until we hit macadamia milk, I reckon.

Isn't lactose the ingredient that causes discomfort with lactose intolerant people's stomach's?

As someone lactose intolerant, I looked at the citations and none of them claim A2 milk is lactose free, as I understand it.

This is why I threw in the word "allegedly" above. The producers of a2 milk are trying to go with a new theory that claims that people who self-report as lactose intolerant aren't actually lactose intolerant, but that the cause of their symptoms is their inability to digest the A1 beta-casein protein which is commonly found in North American milk[1].

That's the spiel anyway. I have yet to try it. I'm one of those self-reporting-as-lactose-intolerant-people-who-experience-discomfort-after-ingesting-cow's-milk.

[1] https://thea2milkcompany.com/about-us/

a2 has been around in australia for ages (started in new zealand afaik), and from personal anecdote, i can say that it works. i could drink cows milk (and did a couple of times per day in flat whites) but by the end of the day, it made me feel a little off and i frequently had a “enough milk for today” moment. after starting on a2 i get none of that, and what’s more it makes it easier to drink regular milk for a few days after a week of only a2

nothing scientific, but i’m going to continue paying a bit more for my milk :p

Do you feel discomfort after ingesting cheeses?

I believe there's recent research suggesting that some people who can't tolerate milk are actually allergic to something other than lactose.

I'm lactose intolerant and I've tried nearly every alternative.

None of them match up to regular cow's milk.

I've basically given up milk altogether.

> So is this the new fad after almond and coconut milk?

yep. the only hard benefits listed is "five times the vitamin C" -as if anyone's getting scurvy in the first world-, and "ten times the iron" which may sound impressive, but but a quick search for milk nutrient says that a cup of regular milk has 0.4% of daily iron requirement, so it's 10x of a small number.

>Or does it also cater to people who are lactose intolerant

notice how it says "It doesn’t contain the whey proteins found in cow’s milk that contribute to dairy allergies". so basically it only helps if you're not lactose intolerant, but are allergic to milk proteins. they can't even jump on the lactose free bandwagon with this.

I just assumed all mammalian milk contains lactose.

This chart[1] seems to support my assumption. Interestingly it looks like Kangaroo milk might be okay for lactose intolerant folk.

1. http://ansci.illinois.edu/static/ansc438/Milkcompsynth/milkc...

I would suggest that Kangaroo milk would be exceptionally difficult to farm, however... This is more a feeling I get after years of hunting them, rather than any first-hand experience in trying to milk them.

That's okay, just throw the word artisan on it and charge a lot.

Many people are lactose intolerant [1] and rely on milk that is not from a cow. The marketing behind it may be offsetting to some, as it is not directly aimed at lactose intolerant people, but calling it a fad is a bit too early to tell I think.

There's a major shift of consumer preference in the 21st century, mainly towards healthy and individualised choices, which for a single consumer is great. Maybe like camel milk - I've never tried it, but why not?

[1] https://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/condition/lactose-intolerance#statis...

My daughter is lactose intolerant, and drinks cow's milk just fine - the trick is that it's had lactase added, an enzyme that converts the lactose into, from memory, galactose and some other sugar.

Interestingly, lactase drops are also used when breastfeeding babies that have trouble with lactose (it can give them colic).

Nut-based milks are actually quite convincing, good even, but soy and oat milk... wow, don't know how anyone can drink those!

Soy milk is the only milk I drink. Any other plant milk is too much water and too little nutrients.

That much is true, the nut-based milks are mostly water.

Milk, produced by the mothers on this earth is supposed to be drunk by their infants, not by any other animal or humans! It's quite stupid to drink "another type" of animal milk to cure stomach problems. Stop it all together to cure because the human body is not made to drink milk after infant state.

One can’t make a reasonable argument that anything is “supposed” to be consumed by another creature. Eggs aren’t inherently meant to be eaten, yet many predators scavenge them and they happen to be a good food source.

The claim I often hear is that we shouldn’t drink milk because we didn’t evolve with it as a part of our diet, but that’s simply not how evolution works. At some point, every food source became a part of each animal’s diet and things went from there; it’s not as though all food sources were set in stone before Homo Sapiens came into existence.

No arguments from me on the zany claim that camel milk will cure stomach ailments, though.

I see your point for Omnivore, but we aren't Omnivores :)

I've heard opinions like this around the traps (most recently from upper management at my workplaces) but the arguments all seem to have the subjective unsubstantiated hallmarks of things like the paleo diet.

Is there any tangible evidence or consensus around the anti-dairy movement or is it all anecdotal? Has anyone actually had their doctor echo statements like that?

There is a pretty good documentation about that topic Valles "what the health" on Netflix. Doctors don't get diet education and don't know how important food is for our health. Watch the movie, it's pretty good!

Milk (and milk-derived foods like cheese and butter) have been a staple food in Europe for more than seven millennia. That's why most European-descended people are lactose-tolerant; it was so nutritious that we kept eating it until we evolved a tolerance for it. If your ancestors were European (or African, or Mongolian), you are absolutely "made" to drink milk.

I never understood why drinking animal milk is supposed to be weirder than killing them and eating their flesh, anyway.

I am a picky eater so I doubt I could ever go vegan but I do think some of the stuff done is really odd and sad... Like to lactate they need to keep having babies. Like if you're a woman you can't just go produce breast milk on demand like it's some sort of tap. Because the milk is meant to feed your young. That's why we have veal, as they keep having to have babies and they don't want to spend the resources to let them grow up to be big happy cows on a open field. So they are killed so young, little chance to even live and start their lives.

Then for silk fabric, they boil the sac's alive. Then a lot of meat and egg plants, due to bio security the employees there have to wear company issued underwear and clothes which isn't cleaned between shifts always... Some reports of them wearing disposable diapers instead for underwear.

So a lot of odd things go on in the farming industry. I love eating steak and chicken but if I had to go kill them myself I'd feel so guilty. Well some kids raised on farms will play with the chickens and then grow up where their parrents force them to kill them and help out on the farm.

Seems like a hard life. I always wanted to own a farm though, nice open fields and private. No loud neighbors or anything, seems peaceful but I'd stick to somthing like corn, water melons, pumpkins, potatoes probably. Well plants are technically alive too but I guess they don't show any emotion and aren't fluffy.

> Like to lactate they need to keep having babies. Like if you're a woman you can't just go produce breast milk on demand like it's some sort of tap

Not true - a woman will keep producing milk for as long as it is being taken. A woman could continue to express milk indefinitely after stopping feeding their infant. As an aside, lookup "nursing maids".

Interesting, wonder if the same applies with cows?

I know on PETA's website they say "Cows produce milk for the same reason why humans and other mammals do: to nourish their young. But the millions of cows who live on U.S. dairy farms are forced into a vicious cycle of continuous pregnancy so that they will produce milk for human consumption." [1]

Only reason I really looked into this is I have a friend who's vegan and I'm like "What's wrong with milk? How are you hurting them?" since not eating their meat. Thinking cows that made milk were some magical special animal that main purpose was just making milk.

I've never been a huge fan of plain milk, but I do love ice cream, milk in coffee, mashed potatoes, tomato soup I like with milk better, etc.

[1] https://www.peta.org/issues/animals-used-for-food/animals-us...

I honestly don't know either way, but I wouldn't trust PETA's word on anything without double-checking. I believe they mean well, but they've never shied from bending the truth and using blatant propaganda techniques to try to meet their ends.

If cows are forced into continuous pregnancy, it's more likely to be because beef is very profitable...

Both ways of getting their milk and flesh is wired, aren't it?

Does anybody know if there are long term studies about the effect on health, of drinking milk?

I have been drinking a gallon of full fat milk every five days, for 40 years (yes, that is about 3,000 gallons of milk). I am kinda wondering if it is wise to continue for the next 40 years...

Humans aren't "supposed to" do a lot of things by that standard; drink milk, drive cars, use computers. Feel free to go back to the African Plains and live "naturally" if you want; I like being "unnatural".

... As is rape and kill others. Just because it happens doesn't make it morally right.

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