I wish mum's phone was never invented

I think the key is what happens when they're ready for interaction. When she's done brushing or using the bathroom, do you put the phone down right away, or finish reading/playing? Similarly, if you're focusing on something else instead of playing the (boring) game, your kid will know it. Kids are very good at recognizing when mom and dad aren't paying attention. They'll learn your "attention hierarchy". Do it enough and they'll learn that phone > my game/idea/talk. Definitely a balancing act.

We've found it useful to just be honest with them. "Dad needs 5 or 10 minutes of Dad time, then we'll play."

Young children from 3 to 5 years old are awesome. You can spend hours playing with some sticky tape and a sheet of paper. make a sticky loop with the sticky on the outside, and use it in between to stick things together. Make a Möbius strip and ask them to draw a line along it. Make a three colour hexaflexagon[1]. Make paper dice with different numbers of sides, drawing them out flat with tabs and cutting them out and sticking them together.

The first 3 to 5 years are critical in several stages of a child's mental development[2]. Too many adults think kids are a waste of time until they are older, but that couldn't be further from the truth. The more time you spend with them and the more of a positive relationship you develop, the more it will pay off in spades later on. They seek attention because they love you and they desperately want to spend time with you. 4 year olds want to get involved and help with everything - let them, even if it means the job takes twice as long. You will never have as much influence over the development of your child again.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flexagon#Hexaflexagons

[2] http://www.factsforlifeglobal.org/03/

>What should I be doing?

Get bored. It's OK to be bored from time to time. Your brain needs to get bored. Being able to get bored is becoming an increasingly rare skill. I'd speculate that cognitive abilities improve after periods of boredom.

I dunno. How about be bored and let your brain freewheel for a minute? I get it, the dopamine comes so fast and easy - all you have to do is check Twitter or Reddit or HN.

Sure, at this point it's just Luddite speculation, but I kinda expect that we're going to find out in 15 years that not having prolonged periods of free thought (i.e. being bored) is worse for our mental health than sleep deprivation.

Yes, I think we all recognize the dangers but this is absolutely true.

I think when used correctly they can be amazingly helpful however. Looking after young kids is all about the long game. Caring for kids for up to 16 hours a day can be soul destroying, and playing with your phone when they’re occupied gives you a window into a wider world...

The alternative is spending a bunch of time staring into the distance feeling your brain slowly atrophy.

> Right now my kid is taking the longest dump and I'm waiting outside of the bathroom. What should I be doing?

Oh man I can sympathize with this one. I do the exact same thing -- pull up reddit or HN to bide the time while she contemplates the meaning of life on the can.

> What should I be doing?

Leave the kid to take a shit and go do your own thing; kids don't need to be watched 24/7.

The OP is a bit ironic too, given how kids will also gladly spend most of their waking hours watching e.g. youtube videos and such.

Hahaha, so recognizable :) I'm always searching for stuff the kids like that I also like, it keeps me from yawning and from getting distracted. There are few things but we both like, consequently it often happens that we start out doing stuff together but someone gets very bored. Sure he also tries to make something whenever I make something out of wood but he is bored after 5 min and starts to do something else.

Getting on your phone while playing is worse than saying, I'm very bored what can we do that we both like? For me it can also be, just hop on the train and walk in a different city to have a sandwich. He also likes that. It takes some time but I learned that we both like simple things, like a walk in nature and searching for stones for example. I might take my camera to make some nice pictures. Lego is another nice thing. He makes simple things, I make steering systems or other fancy stuff with cogs.

This is so very true. Lots of waiting in parenting, and lots of repetition that gets boring. Reading some interesting stuff on the phone on the side helps. Just be ready to drop that when attention is needed, which can sometimes be hard if you're in the middle of writing a message for example.

Why do you need to wait around while your kids brush their teeth and go to the bathroom?

a) we should be bored more. Let's get that out of the way.

b) When you are bored, you might choose interacting with your kid through the bathroom door. Not the funniest activity but better than just waiting. Now you aren't interacting with your kid because reading HN is funnier.

c) When your kid is done pooping you'll be absent, looking into your phone saying "1 sec" instead of immediately making contact.

I know all of this because I'm as guilty myself. I have no excuses. I think this is the key. Kids need immediate attention (and should have it), and parents shouldn't be afraid of being bored with their kids.

In all seriousness, I've had good luck passing around local two/multi-player games while waiting at restaurants, waiting for dumps, etc. such as this one: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/four-in-a-row-pro/id54784175...

Just need to disinfect everyone's hands and your phone afterwards if using it in the bathroom!

> What should I be doing?

Ask you or your partner's parents what they did when you were children, and being boring.

Recite a fairy tale. Riff on it. Make it rhyme. Replace character names with the child's friends' names.

You should learn to be mindful and bored. What is so fascinating on that damn screen?

your candor is hilarious and endearing. I'm sure you are a great parent. :)

what did humanity do before they had cell phones? do that.

Shouldn't you have thought about that before having kids?

With such attitude you should have never had kids in the first place. But, it's too late for you. At least I'm smart enough to realize I shouldn't make that mistake.

Encourage your child to engage in shared interests, and to brush teeth without dawdling? How old are your children, and exactly who do you think is going to raise them into productive and useful members of society?

"It's okay, because it happened in the past, too." is such a weak argument in my opinion. We should strive to present our best regardless of the past.

History repeats itself, so take note and compensate accordingly.

You are done with a magazine at some point. The same can't be said about the internet.

There will always be new articles or replies somewhere, the time you can spend reading them is endless as opposed to a printed magazine where you will have read all articles that interest you eventually.

It's a mix I'd say but technology certainly plays its part.

I used to think that I'm the problem but it has been brought up in online studies and people I know more and more.

Social networks make me miserable. I didn't have Facebook or Instagram for almost 8 years and I started using Instagram recently. It's a strange mix of feelings but I loathe and look forward to opening the app every time.

Most people seem to experience something similar, no matter how hard they try they can't stop comparing themselves to others, hunting likes and other fake internet points.

That's true, but one interesting takeaway from this article I noticed is that it's the younger generation criticizing the older one - usually it's the other way around.

The fact that this has happened before doesn't mean it's not a lot worse this time.

I know, I am saying this every time there is a discussion about social media, but...

Deleting the Facebook and Twitter apps from my phone was one of the best decisions in the last 12 months or so.

More time for the kids. Less distraction. I still use those services, but only on a computer - so, not all of the time.

> Before smartphones usually, you'd make up conversation, smalltalk, even if you didn't want to talk or had anything interesting to say. These days instead of doing that people just seem to ignore each other and do something that is interesting, using their phones.

That is precisely the root of the problem. That means that the interpersonal relationships with friends and family have been hijacked by for-profit organizations pushing "more interesting" content. This contributes to dividing society even more.

> Before smartphones usually, you'd make up conversation, smalltalk, even if you didn't want to talk or had anything interesting to say.

No you didn't. You read a newspaper or magazine. Even growing up in the 80s I remember sitting around the table, each of us reading a different section of the LA times, and then swapping 1/2 way through the meal.

> Before smartphones usually, you'd make up conversation, smalltalk, even if you didn't want to talk or had anything interesting to say.

Also, before smartphones, people were smoking to have something in their hands.

I'm not sure that more adaptation is going to make people more considerate in using devices practically designed to encourage this behavior.

I called my Dad email dad (back when we had dialup) and then blackberry dad and now he is Facebook/WhatsApp/iphone dad. .. still love him though :)

Are you on iOS or Android? I find these tools for iOS are more limited. Maybe I'm missing something?

What do you use?

> "To become a better parent, one must become a better person."

I've met so many people that for some reason believed the moment they became a parent they also instantly became a better person.

Parents are the bones upon which children sharpen their teeth

> "To become a better parent, one must become a better person."

Screw that, isn't there a quick fix?

/s

That sounds like reasonable phone use to me whereas the article seems to hint at using a phone instead of engaging.

Language skills are one thing. I can help put feel there is a downside you’re missing.

How would the phone contribute to her vocabulary?

Out of curiosity, what is this "old phone"? Is it still a relatively modern smartphone?

So your child will accelerate through language development thanks to this device. At some point, they will discover the endless rabbit holes including, but not limited to, pornography, technology, philosophy, gaming, and politics. Their comprehension in all these areas will see similar advances.

But then what? What will happen when they need to spend time with themselves? How will they relate to other people? What happens when novel information is no longer novel? Will drugs help? How will they cope with the stresses of life?

This is a slippery slope. We are only now seeing how total the consequences to what it means to be a social people.

Definitely messing around on her phone? I've got into the car with my kids and spent time using my phone to get directions to something, send messages to organise things, respond to emails, etc. My partner works in social media so is paid to review, post and respond on Instagram/Facebook/etc, including out of hours.

I would have expected shots as a common answer as an invention they are exposed to only negatively.

I think you're missing the point here.

There are many times when a parent should be giving their attention to their child, but they aren't because their attention is on their phone. The specific activity they're doing on their phone doesn't matter.

Before, you could still do these activities instead of focusing on your child, but the way that manifested itself was completely different.

A parent going to the bar after work is different than a parent being at home but ignoring their child because they would rather look at their phone. In the first case, there is a clear line between when the parent is at home and when the parent is at the bar. And, it is fairly obvious if the parent is spending too much time at the bar and not enough time at home.

In the smartphone situation, the parent can now be on their phone literally 100% of the time they're at home. The child has no idea if their parent is ready to focus on them, or is going to be distracted by the phone. And, it's not obvious at all if the parent is spending too much time on the phone.

Therefore, from the perspective of the child, replacing the old activities with a smartphone activity is much much worse.

>You'd buy tabloids for the celebrity news; you'd watch the nightly news on cable; you'd flirt in bars; you'd travel to visit friends, or have long, nightly telephone calls with them; and you'd keep up with the real Joneses next-door instead of keeping up with the virtual Joneses on Facebook. And you'd be a workaholic by always being at the office, rather than by being home but inattentive.

all those have significant higher friction and time/effort required than smartphone based equivalent. Instant gratification is extremely important factor in the enforcement of addiction. It is like gambling addiction by playing weekly state lottery vs. playing slot machine or roulette in casino.

The difference is that before, you would've been called out as some species of asshole if you suddenly wandered out of, let's say a conversation, to go do one of those things. But for some reason people seem to think the phone endows them with the ability to do two things at once. Sure, the phone does its thing, but your own powers haven't increased even slightly. If people could see themselves from outside, they'd see just how good at multi-tasking they are. Namely they'd watch themselves doing a whole host of things absently and shittily... including but not limited to parenting. One thing at a time is plenty if you've a mind toward mastering that moment and living it.

PS I don't believe any of the people quoted saying "Wow really opens your eyes huh, a lesson for us all" are going to change one iota!

I appreciate the point you're making, but the truth is probably closer to "my mom likes some portion of the activities above, but is addicted to switching between them, getting notifications, and she doesn't known how to moderate her behavior."

As technologists, we have to acknowledge responsibility for the effects our inventions have on society. We wield an immensely powerful set of tools with a uniquely broad reach. We have a duty to build a better world, rather than just chasing engagement metrics.

We can only deal with that responsibility if we think deeply about the human instincts, urges and needs that our technology interacts with. We need to reflect on the strengths and vulnerabilities of the mammalian brain. We cannot be glib or facile, we cannot just say "put your phone down", we cannot just blame the users or a handful of huge multinationals. We need to ask ourselves honestly whether we are making salad or junk food, whether we are making medicine or cigarettes. We need to ask that question often - when we are planning an MVP, when we are adding a feature, when we are gamifying a metric. Is this function call exploitative? Does this for loop enrich the world?

People are addicted to their phones. It's a fact.

Many apps are designed to be addictive, which doesn't help.

That's a very good way of putting it. It makes going to one of these places instantly possible. Or, if you like, escaping to one of these places.

It's a completely different issue. I was never allowed a Game Boy and was crazy about them when I visited someone who had one. But I would have noticed if my parents were playing Game Boy and not giving me attention all the time.

The BBC writes in British English, and that's how the word is spelled here (or, if you consider them to be distinct words, "mom" is not a word). Just as I'd expect the BBC to write e.g. "colour" even if quoting an American source.