Comment by westoncb | Hacker News Reader

Comment by westoncb | Hacker News Reader

I started reading Roth a couple months ago as part of a project to learn how to write better fiction (I also chose Philip K. Dick at the same time for some reason...). I partly chose Roth after seeing by how much he outnumbered any other writer in terms of entries for best 100 novels of the 20th century (I don't remember who published the list, but it was something pretty credible, and he had 6 entries on there IIRC).

I started with Portnoy's Complaint and enjoyed it, but I wasn't blown away or anything. More recently I've been reading a novelette + 5 short stories in a single volume (named after the novelette) titled, "Goodbye, Columbus"—and I've been seriously impressed. I finished the novelette and 2.5 of the short stories; both short stories were astounding (IMO), and the novelette was damn good.

My understanding is that the themes of being Jewish in the U.S. and male sexuality are solidly mainstays in his writing, which at first seemed like would limit the material's interest to me, since I'm not Jewish at all—but if you read descriptions of his novels across the years you'll find a very interesting (bordering on bizarre at times) range. I'm looking forward to reading more.

I love Philip Dick but I wouldn't recommend emulating his writing style. None of his accomplishments are a result of his prose. His character/plot development, dialog, scene... they're all just mediocre imho. However, his ability to touch a contemporary nerve with a concept or plot device is singular, although I think Mary Shelly comes close.

Try VALIS, it's totally different from his science fiction

Somehow I've missed this one. I always pick it up and check out the back cover. Then I put it back down when I read the name "horselover fat". I just can't get past that for some reason.

If it helps, Horselover Fat is just a multi-lingual translation of Philip Dick

There is a reason why Dick is one of the most adapted authors but almost none of those adaptions are particularly faithful. He was amazing at creating high concept ideas, but often the execution failed to fully capture the potential of those ideas. I wonder if he was some 20 or 30 years younger whether he might have spent his entire career in movies and TV which has a more collaborative creative environment that could have let his strengths really shine through while hiding some of his weaknesses as a storyteller.

I agree a modern day Philip Dick would be amazing. There was nowhere near the appetite for Sci Fiction back then as there is now. Dick churned out dos-a-dos bound pulp paperbacks, and most of his work is in short stories he published in magazines. He's a bit like Dickens in this way. All his ideas had to fit within pretty tight constraints, within crude mediums.

I love "Goodbye, Columbus" and its companion short stories, which I re-read from time to time. I think my favorite, aside from the titular story, is "The Conversion of the Jews".

I think Philip Roth's stories have just the right mix of American life, Jewishness and simply universal middle class life experiences, which is why I -- a non-practicing, atheist Jew not in touch with his heritage, and who's not from the US -- can enjoy them.

I started reading Roth a couple months ago as part of a project to learn how to write better fiction

I freely admit that this is my personal biased opinion, but if your goal is to write better, you could do no better than study Bellow and Updike.

Undoubtedly you have identified some of the mainstays of his writing. You might enjoy Zuckerman Unbound as a novella (or is it a novel) about celebrity and identity, and I suppose reflecting his experience of the effects of publishing Portnoy's Complaint.

The only book I read of his was Patrimony, about his relationship with his declining father, which I really enjoyed.

These are early works. He became famous for them, especially Portnoy. But Roth got better as he got older, in my opinion. My favorites are The Counterlife (1985), Sabbath's Theater (1995), American Pastoral (1997), I Married a Communist (1998), The Human Stain (2000), The Plot Against America (2004).

Also, as with a lot of (maybe all?) fiction/art, you can't disregard the context in which it was published. Some critics might disagree with this. But when you consider the socio-cultural situation, especially of Jewish Americans, Roth's work -- especially Portnoy -- was radical, earnest, and subversive. For many years, the American Jewish community regarded him with disdain.

He also often got labeled as a misogynist, which I always found strange. Although his writing is overtly sexual, it was also in attempt to make a point about sexuality. Not to glorify it.

I'd suggest looking at Morley Callaghan also.

You might like My Life as A Man. Read some online reviews first, though. Especially the angry ones. If those give you a laugh, you should definitely read it.

Online reviews usually tend towards the popular opinion.

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