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Comment by chii | Hacker News Reader

You Either Die A Hero, Or You Live Long Enough To See Yourself Become The Villain

-- Harvey Dent , in The Dark Knight

Ironically Bill and Melinda Gates turned into sort of worldwide heroes, targeting the big difficult unprofitable problems with the most social impact

I disagree, and also Gates ruined computers for everyone forever.

You won me over with that compelling argument.

How so?

Microsoft let the hardware go open-source and generic. And that was an incredible win.

Conversely, Apple and Google ruined handheld computers (which we now call smartphones) forever. So far, anyway. They're fundamentally unsecurable. It's at least nontrivial, and perhaps impossible, to prevent surveillance and tracking.

I disagree. If Windows were a lot better, the open source revolution might not have gained quite so much momentum. If IE was a lot better—or rather if they didn't let it stagnate—the very concept of installing alternative browsers might never have entered the mainstream zeitgeist.

Same thing is true for Apple's OS, which for many serves as an expensive several year pit-stop between abandoning Microsoft and embracing open source.

Or having enough money to make unprofitable problems profitable for them (e.g. Step 1 invest in Monsanto; Step 2 push Monsanto in developing companies through 'philanthropy').

I'm not a fan of Gates, but it's very unfair to say such things without providing a reliable source.

Why is the Gates foundation investing in GM giant Monsanto? - https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/poverty-matte...

Are Gates and Rockefeller using their influence to set agenda in poor states? - https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2016/jan/15/b...

Monsanto, US, & Gates Foundation pressure Kenya to reverse GMO ban - https://www.rt.com/news/328014-kenya-gmo-us-gates-monsanto/

Gates Foundation is spearheading the neoliberal plunder of African agriculture - https://theecologist.org/2016/jan/21/gates-foundation-spearh...

(And there's lots of articles attacking from a more purely anti-GMO stance, which I don't find particularly helpful, as it's largely the politics/economics behind Monsanto that are the most disturbing.)

Having read these articles, it seems to me he's trying to follow the logic he knows. Hunger? Let's make a partnership with crop-related companies. Diseases? Let's talk to the big pharma. He's following the ways he understands. Not everybody has as much courage as the Indian government in that respect.

> he's trying to follow the logic he knows.

Right - and that's the scary thing. We see what he did in the realm of computing --- now imagine the parallels in the agricultural infrastructure of countries across the world.

He's a hero to some people. I still hate his guts.

And I give him almost no credit for giving some money now. He's giving away stolen money while living in the lap of luxury. Gates acted completely amorally for most of his life and now is simply buying his way into respect. I'm not a Christian, but I'm reminded of Luke 20:45-21:4.

But his Foundation is well-run and effective. Maybe he was a net good for humanity. Probably not, though.

I see your point, but the guy seems to have a different set of values. When he was asking his marketing department to prepare a series of smear campaigns against Linux and Open Source, for example, I don't think he realized he was doing a wrong thing. In his mind, he was probably saving his company from competition, as he always did.

Also, I think a great momentum of Linux in the late 90s was precisely because people hated Microsoft wholeheartedly, and that was one of the main reasons it didn't die as another toy project. So I'd say yes, a net good for humanity - not because but in spite of what he's done so far.

There's plenty of criticism on his Foundation as well. Even if everything it does is good (on which, see above), there would certainly be questions about whether the money is being spent in the best way possible. Setting all of this aside, I think Gates would have to eradicate several horrible diseases just to break even karmically.

It's happened before. Andrew Carnegie gave away most of his fortune which was in its time as substantial as Gates' wealth.

Also, Bill Gates' mom was into public service in big way, so there's some family history. [0] This sort of thing used to be fairly common in the American upper class.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Maxwell_Gates

Edit: punctuation

Doesn't that pretty much mean "you either turn into a villain or stay a hero until you eventually die"?

No, it means you either die commiting a heroic act, or you're not killed as a hero and end up becoming a villain. Basically saying you'll either die doing a heroic act, or if you die a more natural way of old age or something you may be seeing yourself as a villain.

The quote has mostly to do with risk taking and comfortability that age makes us inclined to adjust. Basically, our habits and creature comforts have a way of making us too complacent and out of touch. Even the best of us can turn into miserable old pricks if we don't take risks and go outside our comfort zones. Even heroes. Heroes die young. So do villains. But an old hero is mighty suspect. Old age isn't due to skill always - sometimes it is due to lack of risk taking - which is a heroes job..

Also see: "Only the good die young."

Taken from the original quote of Nietzsche.

Don't let Nietzsche ride on Hollywoods' coattails. Harvey Dent penned that quip, I saw it on the silver screen. Now please excuse me while I research the themes of crappy sci fi novels to top-post on the next political thread.

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