Ask HN: How have you handled existential crisis in your life? | Hacker News Reader

Ask HN: How have you handled existential crisis in your life?

33 pointserigin41 comments

From time to time, more often than I would like, I have a full blown existential crisis. It can be triggered by something as simple as a YouTube video, suggested to me by YouTube, that is a cancer patient talking about their final days.

That's what it was today.

Given we're (largely) engineers and science minded folks here, I ask HN: How do you handle deep existential questions?

More specifically, here are some questions I really struggle with:

- How do you deal with the fact that we don't know why anything at all exists? Why, for instance, do atoms, subatomic particles, etc, exist AT ALL? Why not NOTHING?

- How do you deal with the fact that your life is meaningless. You will die and - at best - leave behind a legacy for history books. More likely, you will die and it will be completely insignificant. To put it another way: How do you deal with the fact that your life is MEANINGLESS?

- How do you deal with the likelihood that you will suffer greatly at some point in the future, whether it be from cancer, or some other disease? How does a day of 9-5 work, capped off with a horrible prolonged cancer treatment at the end of your life, not corrupt your mind?

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Nobody is going to hand you meaning on a silver platter, and anyone that claims to have all the answers is lying to you. You have to find your own meaning in life, and that means you have to choose what matters and choose what you spend your time on. There's nothing inherently meaningful in being alive, true, but our nature as thinking beings lies in giving meaning to things that are meaningless.

If you don't have a purpose, find a purpose for yourself. Everyone is insignificant, so why try to be significant to everyone? Just be significant to your friends. Show up in the world. And do things that matter to you.

Forget about the unanswerable questions. They're unanswerable, and they'll only trip you up. Go be around people, and let them remind you why you're alive. Go whistle in the dark for a while.

- How do you deal with the fact that we don't know why anything at all exists? Why, for instance, do atoms, subatomic particles, etc, exist AT ALL? Why not NOTHING?

A: Realize we're all made of the same "stuff" what ever that is... and we'll never know "why", but it matters not, as it has no effect upon our lives if this is merely a hallucination or sim, ignore it, enjoy it, or not, it's always your choice.

A: If you seek a lasting public legacy, I feel for you, as darn few achieve that. But your life is meaningless only if you remain selfish and don't give back to society, your community, and friends, seek out ways to help others and share your knowledge, your time is a gift worth giving.

A: I never concerned myself with that possibility, until age 60 when I awoke in a hospital, and lucky to be alive, then I went through a year of hellish pain and depression. What "saved" me was honestly asking myself what would truly make me happier, it doesn't have to be a material object, but in my case it meant getting rid of my car and getting another motorbike as my only transportation.

I ride in all weather, and will ride until I don't have the strength to hold my bike up anymore and it's huge, it saved my life.

Whatever you come up with, I wish you the best in figuring it out.

When my body dies I believe I will go to heaven and continue the journey I am currently on.

Like yourself I have my existential moments. I have been kept awake at night thinking about the many events which take place in the universe at any one point in time.

My understanding of existence, my own significance and life's purpose come from the teachings of Jesus. There is a book in the Bible's Old Testament, Ecclesiastes, which asks the very same questions you are asking. You may find it interesting to read. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ecclesiastes+1&...

Mark's Gospel in the New Testament is the shortest of the Gospels and you may find it interesting to read as well if you are interested in a perspective that life is not meaningless. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark+1&version=...

I am an old HNer in my 40s and have seen a number of people close to me die. I was with a friend while he died of HIV and lost another good friend to suicide. I said goodbye to my Father several years ago. It is good you are asking these questions now as many don't.

It's interesting to consider another question: what kind of rational "meaning" we would be ready to accept as an explanation? For example: somebody tells you that we were created by a higher being, or civilization, to serve some rational purpose for them. E.g., they use us as "food". Or they need us to solve some other practical problem in their civilization (not unlike the tools we are area creating for ourselves) - like, help them migrate across the Universe (because they are too small to create the necessary tools by themselves). Would you accept this as a decent meaning? Would your existential problems become easier to bear based on this knowledge?

Remember, it's also an existential opportunity. Granted, most of us seem to rely on Professional Sports Leagues to create meaning and significance out of pure air, but you have the chance to find something that both helps others and is highly enjoyable to you by wrestling with some of that angst.

Bertrand Russell's answer was that the more you involved yourself in helping young people and future generations, and shifted meaning beyond your singular mortal self (Conquest of Happiness, book) by doing that, the happier you'd be. (Since things obviously aren't going to end well for any of us, as individuals.)

It is a way of fooling yourself (because heat death of the universe) but ya get to help others and enjoy yourself at the same time. Win-win. A kid's laugh is pure enjoyment, worth adding to the world by and despite any logic. My version of Utilitarianism holds children laughing as the highest good worth working for. Kid's enjoyment is totally real.

Beyond that, meaning or purpose ain't much: hammers have a purpose 'cause they're mere tools. Slaves can have a purpose and meaning for their (continued) existence, similarly. But that's not a good thing. A free human being doesn't come with a purpose 'cause we're the thing that confers meaning on other objects. That's a good thing.

As the wise old ones say: "Enjoy the show."

Or join the Mormons. Or get hired by SpaceX. Meaning can be a contact high.

I don't know you, but based purely on what you wrote here, it sounds like you could knock out half of your troubles by simply not being an engineer working a 9-5. :-)

There are infinite possibilities for life. Would you choose to sit at a desk all day, if you had to do it all again? Or is that just what you happened to get from picking the default option, every step of the way?

As to the unanswerable questions, we've invented philosophy and art and religion and meditation and others to help tackle those. Don't expect to find answers in engineering or science. They're great but that's not what they're for.

I've found my answers to these questions, but if they were the sort of questions which could be answered in a few words, we'd just have a "MEANING OF EXISTENCE" pamphlet to give to everyone in first grade. We can't even write a single document on how to write good software, and that is much more concrete and focused.

I'm in the middle of making a big career change myself. There's no secret trick to finding what you're meant to do. You just have to keep trying new things until you find it. Go for it.

> How do you deal with the fact that we don't know why anything at all exists?

I'm occasionally troubled by this late at night (often after too much to drink). At some point you just have to accept "it is what it is" and move on to less troubling thoughts.

> How do you deal with the fact that your life is meaningless.

Meaningfulness is a feeling/emotion, probably unique to humans. I don't think my dog wakes up wondering what his purpose is for instance. As an emotion, it's easiest to feel like you are doing something meaningful by helping your fellow humans in some way. You will feel good about it, even if it ultimately doesn't matter during the heat death of the universe.

> How do you deal with the likelihood that you will suffer greatly at some point in the future.

I take solace in the fact that I live in state with a "death with dignity act" if the disease is terminal. Not that you couldn't take things into your own hands if need be.

> we don't know why anything exists Yeah, neat. Maybe one day we will figure it out. Maybe it is an accident. Maybe it is on purpose. Maybe we don't get to know.

> life is meaningless Depends on your definitions. Will I be remembered when the sun burns out? Nope. But I can and do enjoy existing. I enjoy my family and their existing. I can improve the existence of others. There is meaning in that at the micro level, if not the macro level.

> you will suffer greatly It is the journey, not the destination. I enjoy my existing now. I might not enjoy it at the end. My grandma enjoyed over 90 years and had a rough last 4-6 months. Who knows what the future holds, but I hope for it to keep getting better for me and those I care about.

I really like this: > “If you have a problem that can be fixed, then there is no use in worrying. If you have a problem that cannot be fixed, then there is no use in worrying.” – Buddhist proverb

I pretty much live by that. I don't worry. I just do what I can and don't do what I can't. This is not to say I don't have plans or dreams. I can influence those, so I do.

My life has gone from hard to very blessed. It could become hard again. I'll worry about that if that is the case again.

I think I only really have an "answer" (in that I think I know how I would handle this personally) for the last one. The second one doesn't really bother me at all (when I realize the second one I actually just feel kind of free, at least most of the time), but the first one haunts me on an intermittent basis. I don't have the answer to that one.

> - How do you deal with the likelihood that you will suffer greatly at some point in the future, whether it be from cancer, or some other disease? How does a day of 9-5 work, capped off with a horrible prolonged cancer treatment at the end of your life, not corrupt your mind?

When I feel that the great suffering has begun and there is nothing more to look forward to (hopefully when I'm very old, but can be at any point), I will opt for assisted suicide. I don't think I'm afraid of death, but of dying in pain. If I have the opportunity to make that choice, I plan on doing it. On the other hand I do not want to die in general and am also open to trying whatever methods of life extension are available to me as long as the suffering does not outweigh the state of being alive.

Rest assured you’re not the only one with such thoughts/questions. Here are my 2 cents...

As you correctly state, most of us being engineers, we have to accept some facts, initial conditions and axioms for the system/life we’re living in and unfortunately work with these constraints. - Just accept that the universe around us exists. If it’s real, a simulation, a dream or whatever else suits you is irrelevant. - That’s the difficult part, some (most?) humans understand our place in the universe and how meaningless our existence is in the vast time scales of the cosmos. Try to live your life everyday. - We’re just like any other animal or complex machine or a PC. Eventually we’ll “break down” and will suffer or be unfortunate. Our habits, environment, genes, whatever other factor, affects this but at the end of the day we’ll all die.

Try not to overthink it, try to keep your mind occupied with other (more relaxing/fun) activities, educate yourself so as to better understand the system you’re part of and spent some quality time with other humans, otherwise you might fall into one of the many mental medical conditions.

Just keep tight, we’re all into this.

The meaning of life is survival. Perhaps you lack eudaimonic happiness. Introduce struggle towards goals that are meaningful to you. If nothing is meaningful, you have depression. If only a very small number of things are meaningful, struggle at those. Meaning is built by you, no one can give it to you and it doesn't happen by default once you graduate from extrinsic rewards.

> If nothing is meaningful, you have depression

I almost certainly do have depression then. Not the kind where I am suicidal, or lack the ability to get out of bed... but rather, the kind where I would rather not exist because I do not enjoy life.

I struggle very much with meaning, obviously. That's part of this existential crisis... Nothing is meaningful. We are all going to die and I ask what will it mean then? What will some service or app that I made mean when I am dead?

Has anyone yet lived for some purpose, some greater meaning? It appears not, and I am not special.

Endless meaningless life would be even more unbearable. I think 2 of your grievances basically cancel out :)

Imagine tomorrow was your last day. Would you have any regrets?

I personally ask myself that whenever I'm not happy and it usually straightens me out. It's not an easy path but if you want to find meaning in your life, it's a good question to ask.

Most people find meaning through the things they care about which tends to be a small circle of friends and family.

Coming to terms with your death is one thing but coming to terms with the death of everyone you love is another.

In that sense I prefer the idea of make the best out of the limited time you have because it is limited. Once time is limited, your own and that of others, maybe you can find a way to use the little time you have meaningfully.

Think about how you want to die. Do you want to die alone or would you like to die surrounded by people whose lives you made a positive impact on? How do you feel about dying alone and if no one cared whether you lived or died? If you think that no one would care whether you lived or died, you are depressed and should seek help.

Well look around at the world and find some problems to work on that, if you contribute to, will ease the suffering of others. Or before that find something to work on that will ease your suffering. With something like a cancer diagnosis of you or a family member you find yourself focusing on the present. The here and now. That helps ease the existential rumination on life. You could think deeply about something (say existentialism) and write an essay about it. Articulate it. Then you've suddenly provided some meaning. But do things for your own edification rather than for someone else. If you don't know what you want or try to figure it out, other people will define it for you.

One answer is that even though there may be no ultimate, cosmic meaning, your life can be meaningful in the short term. Today, even. It is possible to make the days of others a bit brighter, and that can be very gratifying.

* Read 'The Human Evasion' by Celia green [1]

* Watch 'Neurons to Nirvana' [2]

Instead of avoiding the issue or running head-first into escapism (like most of the responses here are urging you to do), I advise you fully embrace it by exploring the 'inner space':

+ Do psychedelic drugs (mushrooms, lsd, DMT, ketamine) Lots of them. When peak experiences manifest and your reality is in shambles, give it some time to absorb and integrate what happened.

  Don't burn yourself out like some street freak, the objective here 
  is not to escape but to SEE. When integration takes place, go back 
  to more psychedelics. You're an explorer.

+ Meditation is good too but psychedelics are better and work faster.

[1] http://www.theabsolute.net/minefield/humevas.html

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UlAMocYXQw

I believe the way most people operate is by avoiding thinking about these kind of subjects.

Another coping mechanism (a bit more healthy IMHO) is to try and accept death and pain as an inevitable part of the human experience and of what it means to be human. “Memento mori” and all of that.

> How do you deal with the fact that we don't know why anything at all exists? Why, for instance, do atoms, subatomic particles, etc, exist AT ALL? Why not NOTHING?

The "why something instead of nothing" question is one of those universal philosophical questions, but it's interesting to consider the fact that we have no concept or example of the alternative (true nothingness). If you think about it this question is kind of odd in that it carries a hidden assumption that nothingness is the normal state of things and existence (of anything, not just biological life) is somehow abnormal. Why should we have reason to believe that?

> - How do you deal with the fact that we don't know why anything at all exists? Why, for instance, do atoms, subatomic particles, etc, exist AT ALL? Why not NOTHING?

We might actually answer that question. First, there is no such thing such as "atoms". The universe (or reality) is not physical. You might want to read more about quantum mechanics to get a glimpse. It is also very possible that the universe created itself out of nothing. It is also possible that we are living in a loop. It is also possible that we live in a simulation, but that doesn't answer the existential question. As our gods have started somewhere.

As far as I'm concerned, I think the consciousness loop is what it is. Your life is never going to end. You are looping through it and probably through the same life infinitely.

> - How do you deal with the fact that your life is meaningless. You will die and - at best - leave behind a legacy for history books. More likely, you will die and it will be completely insignificant. To put it another way: How do you deal with the fact that your life is MEANINGLESS?

I changed my career. Broke the regular social norms. It was simple for me: You can just end it if you want. Might as well try to "see" things that are interesting to me. I did that way before my discovery of the quantum and uncertain reality of reality. It was Steve Jobs talk that pushed to it. If you were to die tomorrow, what will you be doing today? Just go ahead and do it NOW.

Good riddance life! But seriously, I don't think it matters or it is about cancer. You can die from a meteor too. Stop the 9-5 job if that is what you don't want to do. Go back to 2. Answer that question. And don't be afraid to take life changing measures. Remember, you are insignificant on the larger scale of the universe. You only fear because of the social environment around you. Might as well change it.

> How do you deal with the fact that your life is MEANINGLESS?

I do not agree with the philosophical idea of "Life is absurd because it's meaningless". Collective human constructs are what gives meaning to life. This meaning depends on what your society projects on you as valuable.

> How do you deal with the likelihood that you will suffer greatly at some point in the future, whether it be from cancer, or some other disease?

If you can't change it, don't worry about it.

> How does a day of 9-5 work, capped off with a horrible prolonged cancer treatment at the end of your life, not corrupt your mind?

Everybody dies. You may as well enjoy life, otherwise it's a complete waste.

Acceptance is how I deal with the fact that I don't know why things exist, that ultimately my life is meaningless, and that I may end up with cancer or some other horrible disease. I accept it and move on because ultimately existential questions and crisis don't have answers.

They're like playing the 'what if' game. What if this happens? What if that happens? What if it does? It hasn't yet so why worry about it?

'Worry is like a rocking chair, it gives you something to do but doesn't get you anywhere.' - Van Wilder (or at least that's where I heard it)

Let's set some ground rules. There is a mind-body problem. This problem becomes exponentiated once emotions become involved. Whether things exists or not are not important, though they might exist. The ego is the most tenacious self -one has acquired through existence. It's such that stages of the unveiling of the true self, are pegged with such trivialities, such incomprehensible nonsensible non-sense that an existential crisis becomes rampant upon one's life journey. The highs and lows of life, after all the pain the true emotions they are all part of a regimen that an individual goes through. Which includes the complete mental and physical breakdown of you, the world around you, and everything you hold to be true. There are reasons on top of reasons for this. From the eyes of a guru, you are exactly treading down a path tracked by those that came before you. The only difference is that communication is more open ( as we're "(largely) engineers and science minded folks here"). Hehe, dude as you break down the many layers of ego, and as the ego is about to show it's true face, it will falsify and destroy everything else before it even lets itself be known -- and then right there at that very end of that first step your ego conforms to the self, and makes you think that your ego is the true self, that it was always the One, that it was and is the truest self. People find it easier to believe that their entire world doesn't exist rather than that their ego's don't exist. So how do you deal? Well if it's this process of self, this unopened rose that exists inside you, forget the new age bullshit, the religiosity of the masses, forget all that you know about anything, and if you can still hold onto nothingness. That's how you deal. You're at the cusp of your life, where you need to make sense out of meaninglessness and turn it into meaningness. It is the most decisive battle in one's entire life, the battle of the self, against the self. And if you already know who you are and what you want to be, then you start finding meaning in everything b/c well. I wish it was a gift I could give, something I could let you download off of me, heck I could tell you the same things in a million billion different ways --but it's better you come it yourself. That's the problem with free will right? It's a Catch-22 --No one else can do it for you.

Absurdism for the truly existential stuff.

For the more practical matters understand that a bunch of people before you shaped how you live - and you will do the same to others. Whether thats negatively or positively, because you were active or passive. The engineer in you can look at the "wage-slave til' you die of cancer" problem and take it from there.

PS the lack of meaning and transient life isn't a bad thing - its the ultimate freedom! Go figure out some shit to pass the time, if you can try and make it fun/beneficial for the rest of us..

1. The only thing that really comforts me deeply is the fact that we were here and we lived. I've had a really great life overall. I've gotten to enjoy a lot of what makes human life great. Much more than most people and that luck is never lost on me. Nothing can take away the life I've had. It happened. It's been great. It's a beautiful thing. The fact that it will end in tragedy is unfortunate but it doesn't alter the fact that it happened. I was here. You were here. We lived.

2. As for meaning, the only thing that makes sense to me is to help yourself and others live as great a life as possible (See #1). In the best case you can not only help yourself but you can also help other people have better lives too. Any contribution is great. If you can't contribute at all, that's okay too. We should all just do the best we can, with no judgement or negativity for people that can't contribute. Bill Gates has spared millions of people from terrible suffering, that's an example of a huge contribution. Ideally everyone would live a great and long life. Anything you can do to help is meaningful, however small or indirect.

3. Humans in the future won't suffer like this. We will evolve, using technology, to be superior beings that are likely immortal and beyond all forms of suffering we're currently aware of. Star Trek and beyond is inevitable if we don't blow ourselves up. This is comforting because it means this terrible situation won't afflict our descendants and it's upsetting because we won't personally make it to the promise land and we got pretty close.

4. Humans are very much alike. It's reasonable to think of humanity as a single entity in some ways. So humanity itself is kind of immortal already, and that means all humans are kind of immortal. Almost everything that makes you special exists in other humans too, in different combinations but it's all there in the DNA and culture. You will die but humanity will live and what makes you special will live on within it.

5. On a practical level, the best thing to do is ignore our ultimate fate and focus on having as good a life as possible. Living in this "ignorant bliss" is a necessary coping mechanism and nothing to be ashamed of. The luckiest people live in this ignorant bliss most of their life. Focusing on being mentally and physically healthy is the first step towards having the best life possible.

It is nice to see that you are asking what I think are the truly meaningful questions. All too often we get caught up in the rat race we call this material life.

My humble suggestion would be to put an intention out into the world that you would like to try and find an answer to your questions.

The universe, I hope you will find, is all too willing to share the gift of timeless wisdom to a sincere seeker!

Faith. I am an engineer and science minded person, and I've never seen that being opposed to having faith in god and the afterlife. My faith is not necessarity based on a purely logical belief system, but I find it at least reasonable in explaining why things exists, and rendering my life meaningful.

1. Accept that you don't currently know. Things might change.

2. Per (1), this might not be true. You don't know the meaning now, but things might change.

3. Personally, I plan to (I hope) check out once things get too bad.

I second p0d's mention of Ecclesiastes. Beyond that, "life is but a dream".

These matters are, strictly speaking, outside the purview of science.

I would say that what you're looking for is impossible to describe, the best I can do is point you towards what is called "spirituality", which is different for each person.

I struggle with spirituality. For starters, nobody in my 'community' is deeply spiritual, really spiritual at all.

Add the fact that I do not believe in a god in any traditional sense, and I am stuck wondering what exactly I can be 'spiritual' of?

Buddhists (with misnomer exceptions) don't believe in God. Hinduism makes room for atheists, too. So being a meditation-fiend is open to you.

> nobody in my 'community' is deeply spiritual, really spiritual at all.

Ooo, er, ... "You're gonna have a bad time."

> I do not believe in a god in any traditional sense

Excellent place to start from: less to unlearn.

> I am stuck wondering what exactly I can be 'spiritual' of?

Try five different things. For example: attend a church service; take a meditation class (Buddhist or otherwise); spend the weekend in the woods; volunteer at a hospital (reading to terminal patients maybe?); etc...

The idea is to gather information. Listen to your heart (literally.)

For almost any attribute, if you have nobody at all in your community like that, it would probably be worthwhile to expand your community to include such people.

It's all too easy for "engineers and science minded folks" to become a rather insular community, if you're not careful.

What you are describing is essentially nihilism. And it's hard to talk yourself out of.

Your first statement is the crux of the argument. It's a tremendous question, we just don't understand, but somehow we are here. Is there even anything here if there wasn't our consciousness to witness it?

But if we don't know the why, we also don't know if it matters or not. And perhaps individually you feel your impact is moot, but you affect those around you, in small ways, and that ripples out to the way they affect the people around them, and so forth.

And you will suffer at some point, but you can also contribute to or ease the suffering of others, that is an active choice on your part. And I believe it is meaningful.

Jordan Peterson touches on this with a nice though experiment. If we collectively all try to contribute to suffering tomorrow, every human on the planet, consciously acting to make things worse. You would have 'hell' on earth in no time.

Alternatively what if everyone tried to make it better?

You are just a cog in that wheel, as we all are, but we add to it's direction.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tWsTQR6_2s

Vipassana Meditation really helps.

I became a Buddhist, lol.

I guess mine might be an unpopular opinion, I believe in a supreme being and am religious. Usually when people say thing like "Given we're (largely engineers and science minded folks here" they aren't looking for religious folks to step in and say anything. Nevertheless, I am and it brings me peace and joy.

My beliefs help to answer a lot of the first question.

When it comes to the second, I find a lot of meaning through life. That doesn't mean that I will leave some great legacy but I hope I help quite a few people along the way. I do that by changing my daily routine from what you describe. I don't work 9 - 5 and cap off my day with a prolonged cancer treatment, nor do I cap it off by thinking about my future need for a cancer treatment, heart surgery, or my impending death in anywhere from a few days to a few decades (for clarity, I am not currently dying any faster than a normal American middle ages male, but I will eventually die).

So what do I do? Well I spend a huge amount of my spare time helping others with my family and friends. I volunteer evening in refugee shelters, homeless shelters, drug addiction treatment groups, food banks, and low cost clinics. Sometimes I just help people around my neighborhood who need it. This week on Monday I went and had a long conversation with an older woman in my neighborhood and her boyfriend (both in their 80's) before she was going in for a major heart surgery. We talked about her life, about her thoughts and feelings, about her fears, we prayed together. At the end of the evening she felt better, I felt amazing, and she had her surgery (she's doing very well).

On Wednesday I went to another neighbors and my kids and I cleaned up her yard. She just lost her husband. She didn't ask for the help and I didn't know her real well, but we had a great time and now my family and I have a new friend. It was hard, hot, and dirty work, but who cares? At least I didn't sit up worrying about my mortality all night.

I spent quite a few of the other nights at the refugee shelter. They always need a ton of help! My wife and kids love the people they meet. We have a great time and meet new people and learn new things. And I believe we make a difference.

Is my life meaningless? I don't think so. I believe there is more after this life. However, even if there is nothing and we are just an extremely short blip on an extremely small blue dot around an unremarkable sun on one of the little spiral arms of a little insignificant galaxy, I still don't believe that life is meaningless. I enjoy the moments I have with the other insignificant blips that I come into contact with.

My point in posting is not to brag, I don't really care for accolades. My point is to show meaning. So my answer to your major question is: find meaning in your life. I've given a few suggestions. Start right now on one. If you walk out of your house right now and look around, I bet you're find someone who needs you.

More beer.

1. Some people view life as a puzzle to be solved. It's a game created by a higher being, maybe even myself, to be played.

2. I don't believe in other minds. So therefore not only is my life not meaningless, it is the only life that ever had meaning.

3. People are not guaranteed to suffer.

Drugs.

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