People crave silence, yet are unnerved by it | Hacker News Reader

People crave silence, yet are unnerved by it

economist.com

113 pointstintinnabula70 comments

The article is interesting but I wish it went deeper into one of the theses: that people aren't craving silence as much as they are craving a lack of distraction. Noise has always existed in varying levels, but what I think may be different about the 21st century is how distracted our environments have become, which can feel like noise.

Here's something strange that happened to me last week. I went to my local gas station to fill up the tank on my car. As I was standing idly and staring off into the distance, I heard a voice talking to me. I spun around but nobody was around me. Afterwards I noticed that the voice was coming from a small, iPhone 8-sized screen embedded on the gas pump. It was showing advertisements as well as looping the "Hot News" of the day. Admittedly, I became irrationally angry about this. It felt like an invasion of my mental space. Here I was pumping gas, already paying money to the business, why are they continuing to invade my mental space, which is the last bastion of "freedom" an individual can have? I noticed the whole event put me in a heightened state of tension and anxiety. I wanted to leave as fast as I could. I wasn't bothered by the other cars driving on the road, I wasn't bothered by the local homeless population trading and bartering a few dozen feet from me, I wasn't bothered by any of this background noise. What bothered me, and what felt "noisy" to me, was this invasion of my mindshare.

Those gas pump screens are terrible, turns out a great deal of them have an unlabeled mute button, which has made me much happier when having to deal with them: https://www.reddit.com/r/lifehacks/comments/5szod1/hit_this_...

Interesting! This is exactly what I was talking about. I do wish the Mute button was better labeled. The gas station I'm talking about has completely unlabelled buttons. No doubt this was a conscious design decision.

I'm conflicted about this whole thing because, on the one hand, it is within the right of the private organization to do this. They see empty space and decide that they can cut a deal with the local News station and make some extra revenue. I completely understand that and I can sympathize with it. On the other hand, at what point do things become "Too Much?" I'm foreseeing a Bladerunner world where advertisements dominate the landscape and all areas of our life.

The death knell will be when I go to a State Park or a National Park and see an advertisement for refinancing my home next to a century-old tree. I haven't been to a park in a few years so perhaps this has already happened...

> it is within the right of the private organization to do this

Right, but it’s also your right not to do business with them. It’s ok to vote with your feet (or wallet).

They're fortunately uncommon enough in my city that whenever I do encounter them, I make a mental note never to visit that particular gas station again.

I live in Oregon, where you can't pump your own gas (except in very limited circumstances). I stopped at a station that I don't normally used and was horrified to see one of those in-pump screens blaring away.

My annoyance turned to laughter when I realized that you can't even see or really hear the screen from inside a car (I was on a motorcycle). The ads just play to the poor, beleaguered station attendant all day long.

Not being allowed to pump your own gas has always fascinated me. I believe Vermont also has the same law in place. Or maybe it was New Hampshire?

Does the overall price increase as a result of not being allowed to pump your own gas? From the gas station standpoint, they would need to offset the wages given to the station attendant. Is this difference passed down to the customer?

In Vermont and New Hampshire ("Live Free or Die"!) you can pump your own gas. New Jersey is the other full-service-only state I believe.

There is no cost benefit. Self-service increases the insurance premiums for a gas station about as much as it costs to pay the people who man the pumps.

I still want the option to pump my own gas, but I have resigned myself to the fact that it will probably not happen here. Even if we made it a requirement that full service still be offered at no additional cost, Oregonians would vote it down.

Self-service increases the insurance premiums for a gas station about as much as it costs to pay the people who man the pumps

It would be interesting to know why this doesn't seem to hold true in other places. I don't think higher premiums would be near-universally accepted as a cost of doing business if there is a way to save money. Or are these states such places where it is particularly cheap to hire pump assistants?

That's easy - Insurance policies do not call in sick.

If the costs are the same, isn't employing people a better use of money than insurance?

I've never used a full-service pump, so I don't get what the problem is. Why do you prefer to pump your own gas?

> If the costs are the same, isn't employing people a better use of money than insurance?

You don't think insurance companies employ anyone?

How many people do you suppose an insurance company hires every time they sign someone up for a new policy? My guess is that it's a lot less than 1.

Insurance Policies do not call in sick.

It would be a freakish coincidence if they costs were that close.

How often does a gas station have an insurance incident that could have been prevented by full service?

I too live in Oregon. It's weird but I enjoy not leaving my car in the winter. Although it is pretty annoying when they mess up and hit regular instead of the premium I asked for.

That's what they call a first-world problem... Enjoy it while it lasts.

Sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen. Pumping gas is common but not casual. Fires do happen and people are injured. One day someone will cause a fire and claim they were distracted by this screen. That will end the practice.

> Admittedly, I became irrationally angry about this. It felt like an invasion of my mental space. Here I was pumping gas, already paying money to the business, why are they continuing to invade my mental space, which is the last bastion of "freedom" an individual can have?

I just had to leave a comment on this -- Your observations are quite well-written and not pretentious at all. Have you considered writing a French-language 20th century existentialist city-novel? Joking aside, this is pretty much exactly how I feel whenever I listen to obnoxious radio ads in Ubers.

Haha your comment made me laugh. Or rather: It evoked a sense of humor out of me! Kidding.

I haven't taken an Uber in quite some time, but I was in a taxi earlier this year. There was a small television, not unlike the one at the gas station, playing advertisements. It took every ounce of strength and fiber in my body not to jump out of the window. I know the feeling.

If I drive up to a gas pump and notice one of those screens, I drive away. I shop at Target instead of a variety of their competitors solely because Target doesn't play music. When visiting doctors offices or similar places with waiting areas, if they have a TV blasting noise at me, I turn it off, unplug it, or go outside and tell their staff where they can find me.

Honestly, I may have a disorder, as most people I know aren't so bothered by background noise. In my case, natural background noise (e.g. rain, wind, birds, etc) is fine, but advertisements, radio, TV, nearby conversations at bars/restaurants-- these stress me out.

Someday, I hope that we see light and sound pollution for what it is-- pollution.

I, and my father(whom I didn’t really grow up around that much) have discussed that we both find TVs, nearby conversations, etc... very distracting. Especially at restaurants. For me, it’s much easier to hear and focus in on these other noises many times then to focus and discern what my dining partners are saying.

> People crave silence

Not really. Just an escape from noise.

> unnerved by it

... when it seems unusual, or unnatural. In the woods you don't expect the deer to be shouting on their cellphones.

A heavy, windless snowfall is as quiet as the world gets. Nobody finds that particularly unnerving.

I've been told that within an anechoic chamber [1], it's so quiet that people start to hear their own blood circulation, which can be pretty unnerving.

> Cut off from the daily noises that usually drown out our body functions, it becomes possible to hear the grind of bones as your joints move, the ringing of tinnitus can become deafening.

[1] http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20170526-inside-the-quietest...

Yes, but that's not natural silence. That's to say, you'll likely not find an environment like that in the wild here on Earth. So it's not surprising that environment might be unnerving while naturally occurring silence is not.

Caves.

Yes, I thought of this. However: humans spend a proportionally tiny amount of time deep in caves as a species and while some caves might have properties similar to an anechoic chamber, I would guess not to the degree an engineered chamber does.

Well to be perfectly honest, most humans spend a proportionally tiny amount in an engineered chamber as well.

I find myself in a cave... I dunno: weekly? That is, in part, because I live near many of them, and I'm very curious.

Yes, most people spend little time in anechoic chambers. That's my point. That's why the silence in there is unsurprisingly unnerving and unusual to humans.

If you're in a cave weekly then you are in a very, very tiny minority of people. That's pretty cool though.

Caves are certainly not anechoic chambers. Anechoic chambers are called that because they have no internal reflection (no echos, an-echoic). Caves may be highly insulated from the rest of the world, but their rock walls are highly reflective.

An anechoic chambers sounds weird because there is practically no natural analogue.

As a caver, they're not as quiet as you think. Most caves are filled with the sounds of dripping water, running water, and blowing wind. While you might not be immediately next to one of those sources, they echo quiet a bit.

Granted it's still quieter than most environments, but feels less so than things like a heavy snowfall.

Did you ever feel the need to get your rabies vaccine as part of your hobby ? If so, was your insurance company willing to pay for it ?

I've been told that within an anechoic chamber, it's so quiet that some people start to hear the quiet high-pitched chatter of their nervous system screeching out a tune not unlike that of a 90s telephone modem.

But if you know what to listen for, you can hear it without an anechoic chamber.

Around 3am occasionally I wake up and yes I can hear the high pitched buzz of what I assume to be my nervous system or possibly just blood circulating around my inner ear. My neighbourhood is very quiet indeed at that time.

UK: Malvern, Sugarloaf Hill. On a crisp day in autumn. Walking down the escarpment in complete silence. No birds. One of my most vivid memories. Strange isn't it?

OA: I found Kagge's book a little thin and shallow - lots of information about his lifestyle and satisfactions, less analysis. Perhaps that is just me.

There must be something about the Malvern Hills! Last year I ran up Worcestershire beacon from Great Malvern on a gorgeous spring day. Quite a few people were up there enjoying the day. There wasn’t a breath of wind, no one was talking, and the only sound was the buzz of a drone.

Most people have ears that actually make sound and you can hear your own ear noise when it is quiet.

Source: Working in a lab that recorded these sounds for science.

Funny, reading this I am wearing earplugs and the dominant sounds are my heartbeat, the vibrato of muscle tension, and the incredibly high-pitched sound of what might be neurons firing, a bit like a TV displaying a blank picture.

I believe that last one is known as tinnitus.

Is it? I have experienced both these things:

1. A high-pitched hum, that is always there, if I choose to listen to it in a quiet place. (It's quiet enough now in my kitchen at 08:05; the only real sound I can hear is a collared dove every now and then.) If I really concentrate on it it can turn into a sound almost like crashing waves.

2. A ringing sound that is loud enough to interfere with hearing real sounds. I only have this a few times a year, often brought on by loud noises.

I had assumed that 1 is a standard feature of human hearing, while 2 is a medical condition called tinnitus. However, although lots of people have described 1, I'm not sure that everyone experiences it. It would be useful to have different names for these two things, even if they are to be described as two types of tinnitus.

Indeed. In fact I can get to 1 when its quiet and I have my full concentration.

I think the nervous system has a dynamic gain. Its when things are quiet that the gain is high enough to tune into the high pitch hum. Hearing it for me is a good sign that I am now ready and in the 'zone'. It is insanely frustrating when you want to get into the zone but cant, at such times i really crave for the hum to start.

Tinnitus can become permanent. It's common in those who have abused their hearing with extended exposure to loud noise - be it at a loud workplace, rock concerts, or just blasting music through headphones. Because of that last one, it's quite common among those of us who grew up in the Walkman generation and later.

psychological bias too

my mother couldn't bear noise from the TV if my father pick the channel. "too loud". But if it's her choice of show, suddenly sound level is not an issue anymore.

My parents too, exactly as you describe. It's funny to me, now that I don't have to live with them.

A decade ago and friend and I visited Rachel, NV (home of the Little A'Le'Inn, closest civilian location to Area 51, etc). We arrived there around 11:30 am. It was dead quiet. No wind. No insects. Nothing. But not nothing, because my friend as annoyed by my shoes squeaking as I walked. Turned out his shoes started squeaking as well. It was a weird experience.

What tiny sounds have we all been making every day of our lives, but have never been in a quiet enough space to hear?

No one? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shining_(film)

This is what I came to say. I don't want silence, I just want a massive reduction in the noise I hear.

I'm a bit different than than the average here, I'm a chef. My extraction fans, ovens, hot pans, all make a tremendous oint of noise, by the end of my shift I just want quiet.

I want to get home, kiss my son good night, try to remind my wife that I'm her Husband, and get some sleep in a quiet area.

No noise freaks me ou though.

Somewhat related, here's the trailer of an interesting documentary on finding areas of the US unaffected by human made noise. The jet age has made these areas quite rare. In a sad twist, the man who has spent his life trying to find places untouched by human noise is now going deaf (this was a few years ago, not sure his current prognosis).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0xHfFC_6n0

This reminded me of something Yvon Chouinard said, about the farthest point you can get from a paved road. The longest distance in the contiguous US he claimes is 25 miles, at the Snake River headwaters in Wyoming. Can’t find the exact reference right now but it’s in his book “Let my people go surfing”

Is that sad news? Surely he would enjoy the silence...

Watch the video, he wasn't trying to find silence, he was trying to find the sounds of (just) nature. I imagine going deaf would be quite traumatic for someone who spent their life recording sound.

The closest I've come to true silence was trekking into the Sahara desert. At night I went about a km from the camp and sat in the dunes. No wind, no insects, no sound at all. And I have to say, it was unnerving. Your breathing, your heartbeat suddenly roar in your ears.

I've had something close to that, in the Mojave. Your footsteps are loud.

I don’t agree with this idea. My wife and I rented an RV and are camped at least a half mile away from anyone else. The quiet today before dawn and morning was fantastic. Similarly when I lived in the mountains in Arizona it was a huge pleasure to hike somewhere with no sounds but the wind and sit and read or meditate. Quiet is healing.

I think people really crave silence inside of their own head, rather than silence in their environment. People tend to live by default through several layers of filtering (emotions, relation to the past, protection of sense of self, scanning for threats, etc.) and also one or more voices constantly telling them things that may or may not be related to their current environment (thoughts).

It is possible to cut through most or all of this and experience relative silence inside your own head through regular meditation. Highly recommended.

Do people really crave silence? I always seem to crave quiet over pure silence (where the hissing of my tinnitus can become too distracting). There's a hum and a rhythm to a busy room that doesn't need to be loud: the chatting at a coffee shop, the rattle of keyboards in the office, the laughter and splashes at the beach, or of course the sound of a rain storm in full swing. I crave the peace of those moments and the gentle lull of their sound waves.

I expect there is a huge personal preference here, as my wife likes things much quieter than I do. More along the lines of 'hear the tinnitus' but I on the other hand want some background noise but nothing that triggers cognition. I can think really clearly for example while sitting on the beach or next to a waterfall.

Working in open plan offices helped me train my hearing to ignore stuff but then it gets weird when there is no noise at all.

"Or silence may open listeners up to the unknown reality of themselves: to a universe within as infinite as the stars. With good reason, that is what humankind may be afraid of. It has taken mystics to brave it: St John of the Cross venturing into the noche oscura in which the soul meets the Lover, or the writer of the Chandogya Upanishad, 'meditating on this visible world as beginning, ending and breathing in the brahman'. Like a deep dive, engaging with silence is an act of faith."

Beautiful.

There are some amazing western teachers who teach how to experience this, such as:

Eckhart Tolle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtuiEDBKgBU

Can people not get used to the silence they are unnerved by?

I keep the fan on at night because I'm used to the white noise throughout the day, so to have no white noise at night is kind of jarring. But there are times in the year when I have to keep it off because it'd be too chilly. It's a bit "unnerving" since I'm now subjected to the jarring silence and all the little noises made by animals at night, but after about 3 days, I'm already used to the silence and so it's no problem at all.

I use a white noise generator at night as I live near a major street. More customizable than a fan, extremely compact, and won't affect the temperature. Just putting this out there so people in similar situations become aware of this option.

We have a white noise generator that uses a fan inside to make the sound ;-). Makes far more pleasant white noise than anything with a speaker, in my experience.

It’s not surprising that optimal sound environment is neither a barrage of sound nor complete absence of any sound. The optimum is somewhere in the middle.

I think so. It's probably a reason why some people prefer a bit of "human buzz" when working remotely — e.g. a not-too-noisy coffee shop or a pleasant library, where you can work at peace, but still feel the human presence around you. Which can be a welcome change to always working from home.

“People crave water, but fear drowning.”

just some random memories this brought up for me:

I attended a lecture with my to-be wife while she was in undergrad, where she had a Deaf studies minor. It was about self-inflicted deafness (this is not the speaker or material but could get you started if you’re interested to learn more: https://primemind.com/deliberately-deaf-fbeed775c563).

After visiting India for a few weeks it was stunning how quiet Boston seemed when I returned. It was pretty unnerving at first, felt like the city was locked down or something. More recently hiked the Long Trail for several weeks in Vermont, and returning to Boston was overwhelmingly stressful. Silence seemed to be both unnerving and calming depending on the context.

In the feature the most valuable thing will be silence

-- Voltaire

1/3:

Another way to look at silence is to see it as a mode of experiencing, rather than a lack of sound waves reaching our ears. Can we tune off the perception of the sounds around us?

If we can, is that a valid experience of silence? In fact, it might even be a more meaningful interpretation of silence than as the physical absence of sound -- after all, even when there is an absence of sound, we can be holding a conversation in our heads with a frenemy...

[Edit: 1/N => 1/3]

2/3:

Carrying that analogy further, let's say we did "conquer" the perception of sound down to switching it off. But our visual stimuli is very active. Either we are captivated by a busy scene in front of us, or though we have our eyes closed, we are actively dreaming up images. We are still busy. Technically silent, but not silent in the spirit of the concept.

So to extend our contemplation, perhaps true silence is when we tune off all perception -- sounds, sights, smells, touch, taste and yes, abstract thoughts too. For if we are busy thinking up, say, a proof to Pythagoras theorem, that doesn't quite fit the bill of the concept of silence either, even if there are no sights/sounds/etc involved.

[Edit: 2/N => 2/3]

3/3:

Impossible, you say? Well, we all do it on a daily basis. In deep sleep. And maybe that's the key to the craving of silence. For we find deep sleep very restful, and we crave it during our wakefulness as well.

I am just contemplating here, typing in real time -- have experience with meditation, and extrapolating it vis a vis the article at hand. I have kinda learnt to "sleep" while being awake and aware. The trick is to let the perceptions come and be, but not do any "work" with them. No interpretation, no labeling, no drawing of boundaries around objects. When thoughts arise, just automatically forget them, not even remembering that they arose. It can be quite restful and rejuvenating; perhaps because it is a silence of sorts.

[Edit: N/N => 3/3]

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