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Comment by gepi79 | Hacker News Reader

I wish people would stop the unhealthy and irresponsible and dangerous life-destroying hype and promotion of psychedelics including cannabis.

All medical experts warn against the use of drugs and psychedelics except as medical tools of medical experts.

Drugs and psychedelics can trigger all kinds of long term mental disorders that even the best experts might not be able to heal.

Medical science and psychology are still very limited and primitive with regard to addictions and mental disorders and understanding and (healthy) manipulation of the (unhealthy) brain.

If "you" do not believe me, check the internet for reports of people suffering from addiction or mental disorders and their sad quest for help.

Even bad diets and lack of sports and lack of dental care are unsolved health problems in societies in 2018.

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This comment is naive, but not totally off-base. Psychedelics can cause real long-term problems for people even if used correctly. I liken it to skydiving, a potentially dangerous activity for which one must be completely prepared, with no absolute guarantee of safety.

That said, I would say that psychedelics definitely expanded my consciousness and changed my life. And that I stopped doing them in the nick of time. They do cause a turn inward, and what I learned is that turning inward can be an endless journey into the void. What I really wanted was to take my expanded consciousness and use it in the consensus world, and for that, I felt, you needed a clear head.

It's pretty clear from your comment that you don't know anything about magic mushrooms.

I could understand your response if the parent were speaking about LSD or bath salts or something else that have been known to give people bad, destructive trips. But shrooms?

Psilocybin is known as the gentlest and most enjoyable psychedelic there is. Adverse reactions are rare, and as far as I know nobody has ever come out of a shroom trip with their brains scrambled. Personally, I find that the experience isn't so much a "trip", but rather a gentle, beautiful and interesting set of visual effects. I don't hallucinate people or supernatural beings, but I do see colours around the edges of things, and repeating fractal patterns everywhere, and enjoy a strangely improved acuity of vision.

Shrooms are also a type of drug where you can derive a psychological benefit from very small doses (or microdoses) that essentially provides no "trip" at all. There's promising research showing benefits for depression and PTSD. Not to mention that psilocybin is not addictive.

Psilocybin is known as the gentlest and most enjoyable psychedelic there is.

This is not true. Different people respond differently to different drugs. The experience also depends on the dose and the set and setting. Not all people are fine with hallucinations and psychedelic trips. Not all people are happy with a perfect set and setting. To promote psychedelics as possible solution for mental disorders (anxiety, depression,...) is absolutely irresponsible and even warned against by psychonauts. https://psychonautwiki.org/wiki/Set_and_setting

Besides, psilocybin is not addictive for most because it is not fun enough for most. But the risk of bad trips and long term disorders is real.

https://www.livescience.com/16287-mushrooms-alter-personalit... :

- But this is a strictly do-not-try-this-at-home experiment, MacLean cautioned. The participants in the study were under close supervision during their session with the drug. Psychological support and preparation helped keep bad trips to a minimum, but many participants still reported fear, anxiety and distress after taking psilocybin.

- MacLean said, ... that the risk of unsupervised usage outweighs any potential reward.

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/features/how-doctors-tr... :

- "This is serious medicine with a capital M," he says, "and if you don't watch yourself and you don't pay attention to the essential basics, you could be in for a very difficult time."

- "If we move forward and understand that these substances should only be used under optimal conditions," says Grob, "it will have a positive impact on an individual, family, collective and societal level."

Your livescience.com link basically argues the opposite, but you cherrypicked one person's cautionary, own-ass-covering advice to make a contrary argument. The article itself points out that people overwhelmingly come out of he experience with positive personality changes!

Also, nobody is arguing that irresponsible use of psilocybin here. The person you quoted is saying that unsupervised psilocybin use is potentially dangerous. You should be careful if you have a history of anxiety, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia or similar disorders. And it's always a good idea to do shrooms together with other, stable, experienced people.

This is a better source of information: https://tripsafe.org/shrooms-side-effects/

The fact that you brought up cannabis, of all things, the world's most popular recreational drug (after alcohol and tobacco), tells me that you are not quite informed.

Your livescience.com link basically argues the opposite

I argue against the private use of drugs and psychedelics. Especially against the private use of psychedelics to solve existing problems.

I argue for the use of drugs only as medicine by medical experts.

That people believe they had great insights does not mean that it is actually true. Religious people think their god is real and important. Some people argue that the Earth is flat. Some people deny climate change.

The fact that you brought up cannabis, of all things, the world's most popular recreational drug (after alcohol and tobacco), tells me that you are not quite informed.

You sound like the typical drug apologist with only personal experience that, by pure luck, was good in your opinion until today. To counter comments like yours is why I am writing this, trying to prevent needless misery created by bad use of psychedelics.

Many people use the psychiatric service for the first time because of mental disorders (e.g. panic attacks, psychosis, schizophrenia,...) triggered by psychedelics including mushrooms and cannabis.

>as I know nobody has ever come out of a shroom trip with their brains scrambled.

you would be wrong. if you are predisposed to psychosis shrooms can trigger that.

I get it that you prefer mushrooms. But most people actually handle LSD better than mushrooms. So the fact you trashed LSD is a little silly.

"Brains scrambled" implies permanent negative effects. I have never encountered any evidence that psilocybin has contributed to psychological damage, unlike LSD and its famed/apparent tendency to provoke flashbacks years later.

On the other hand, there are increasing numbers of recent studies that refute the idea that psilocybin is as dangerous as some people have claimed in the past [1] [2]:

> We failed to find any associations between lifetime use of psychedelics and past year serious psychological distress, receiving or needing mental health treatment, depression, anxiety, or suicidal thoughts or behavior in the past year. Rather, lifetime use of psychedelics was associated with decreased inpatient psychiatric treatment.

I'm unable to find any studies showing a link between psilocybin and the triggering of latent mental illness. There's some debate about whether age is possibly not coincidental, in the sense that the heaviest users of "hard" psychedelics like LSD tend to start at an age which coincides with the emergence of latent disorders such as schizophrenia, implying that there isn't necessarily a cause and effect.

Nobody is obviously promoting irresponsible use of psychedelics. That said, everything in life has risk. The risks involved with psilocybin seem infinitesimally small compared to those of, say, alcohol or smoking.

[1] http://www.emmasofia.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Psychede...

[2] https://cogumelosmagicos.org/comunidade/attachments/j-psycho...

You talk about evidence when it concerns your beloved shrooms, and then in the exact same sentence repeat an asinine wives tale like the lsd flashbacks bullshit,which has no evidence behind it at all. Your bias is clear.

And I've seen people have psychosis manifest on mushrooms that was life altering, lasted for months, and they were never the same.

I've witnessed a close friend have a horrifying trip that left him with an anxiety disorder. No known predisposition or family history, either.

And I say this as a strong proponent (and former frequent user) of the medicine.

Psychedelics should be a last resort, as you can trigger underlying conditions, I agree.

But microdosing LSD has saved lives pulling people out of suicidal depression. There's a reason its highly regarded, because for those of us that benefit, its literally a miracle.

Yes.

Too many articles and drug users promote psychedelics as harmless safe easy miracle drugs (for mental problems).

Readers might ignore that positive studies were conducted by medical experts. AFAIK all experts warn against the private use of drugs and psychedelics.

P.S.

Positive thinking or a therapy or the right medicine can improve much and might heal or remove a psychological or bio-chemical disorder.

Still, psychedelics should not be used privately for fun or to solve problems.

You are terrible uninformed, like an abstinent catholic priest trying to preach about the joys and difficulties of family.

Throwing all drugs in one pile (marijuana and mushrooms?) because they are categorized that way by the law is like saying medicine to conottate anything from an aspirin to chemo.

IMO:

- The government should sell all desired drugs for little or no money.

- Drugs have no good use except as medicine by medical experts.

Maybe you should apply as test subject for studies of the effects of drugs on humans.

https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/mari...

Maybe 10 or 20 years of experience with legalized cannabis and other psychedelics will lead to punishment of online promotion or belittlement of these drugs.

https://herb.co/marijuana/news/cannabis-induced-panic-attack...

How many cases are unknown because the victim did not consult the medical service ?

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/307249.php

How many cases of brain damage (e.g. stupidity, bad control of emotions) are not even recognized by the victims ?

Besides, not only the drug but also the dose and intention matters.

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