- Actually try to get to know and understand a person
- Dont use fill-in templates
- Have some actual knowledge of tech (java != .net)
- Dont make offerings for positions I worked on 10 years ago during college.
- Dont be greedy.
To just name a few...
- Don't try to recruit me for the company I work for
- Don't constantly ask me for referrals for a $500 bonus from your $20k fee
In the last year though, I've met a wide variety of people with a wide variety of responsibilities, approaches, and backgrounds, yet they all share the same job title. There are certainly awful recruiters out there, but there are also some really fantastic ones! (Just like how there are both awful and fantastic devs out there.)
I've gotten to see both sides of job searching/hiring and it has been eye opening. Both sides have similar complaints of the other, which is why the process looks so darn similar to dating.
My guess is that founders, CTOs, and recruiters would all probably make a list similar to yours:
- Actually try to get to know and understand our company
- Don't use fill-in templates
- Have some actual knowledge of our industry/product
- Don't focus on positions you worked on 10 years ago during college
- Don't be greedy
That is hilarious. If the representative of a multi-billion dollar company (or a startup trying to become a multi-billion dollar company) every said something like that to me I'd probably laugh and walk out.
There are plenty of young software engineers who hear about first-year salaries at Google and expect similar comp packages from startups. (Are they being too greedy? Meh, they're just misinformed or need to take some time to recalibrate their expectations.)
There are also plenty of companies guilty of the same thing. Their expectations are too high as they turn away great candidates because they don't have a CS degree from a top school or have an impressive track record of open source contributions.
The OP listed "don't be greedy," which sounds familiar to me. It's easy to have a few bad experiences and then draw a blanket conclusion that every tech company is trying to squeeze me. My point is only that it's frustrating on both sides, and whether you're an applicant or a hiring manager, understanding what the process feels like to the other party will make the process that much easier for you.
If they're choosing between working at a company like Google or that startup, it's not greedy to expect competitive compensation.
>that wouldn't be greed, it'd just be realism.
I think that's the point. Startups routinely want to convince people to work for them for less than established companies. They often talk about wanting to hire people who care about solving the problems they are working more than money.
When someone is being realistic by pointing out that they can make more money elsewhere, they say they are just "being greedy."
You're assuming the big paying tech firms will hire any programmer who applies to any startup. They won't.
I've often heard variations on "don't be greedy" from startups and recruiters when I was working as a consultant.
I'd tell them "We'll I'm making X now, so you're going to need to at least meet that in total comp before I'll consider it."
The response is almost always something like "We're interested in programmers who are really passionate about Y and aren't primarily salary driven, so we only pay X/2 here."
"Hi we're looking for a python/clojure/go/dart/react senior developer. We need 5 years of experience and a college degree in CS"
"I have none of those but forward my resume if you think I'd be a good fit"
"Alright, I'll get your resume over to them ASAP!"
Several days later
"Sorry, they said you wouldn't be a good fit"
No fucking shit, I am shocked
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
Tbh, most people dont even need an expert or senior developer. Unless you are expected to pick up everything within 1 week, its easy enough to learn a language or reverse engineer old code with enough time.
I find this the most annoying thing in programming. Does HR not realize that once you can program, you can program?
You usually have a senior person (or a few) that knows everything and calls the shots anyway.
Heck, even when I had to pick up the pieces of a mess, I found the code easy enough to pick up.
Btw I think frameworks are a far bigger deal than a language. Languages look similar enough and it seems like the biggest challenge is using libraries.
Well, in their defense, they're almost definitely recruiting for an organization that doesn't, so it would almost be dishonest if they themselves presented a facade of caring much one way or the other beyond their own quarterly sales commissions.