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Comment by lonelyengineer | Hacker News Reader

I can relate to this,

I'm a 30 year old virgin, graduated with tech-related masters degree, and still a virgin.

I don't resent women, I love women and some of my best friends are women, but I can't see myself ever having a physical experience due to my physical shortcomings.

I'm well under-averagely endowed, a member of an undesirable race, and quite frankly think the age for acting as a goof for me has passed. I don't know how/when to ask women out, and I'm afraid if it'll be interpreted as sexual harassment. I'm no good looking chap for it to be considered flirting, might as well endure loneliness than social suicide.

I cry myself to sleep some nights, but at least I get to live a life where I can feed myself and distract myself by helping others through work/volunteering.

Cherish your loved ones, and don't take them for granted. The pain of never having those experiences is something I'll never wish for others.

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Go to therapy. You may well be below average in looks, and have to settle for a partner with below average looks, but everyone has shortcomings and I'm not convinced you couldn't find a life partner that would make you happy if you tried. It sounds like whatever your physical deficits may be, you are also insecure, fearful of rejection, and not working on improving your social skills. Don't quit before you've even tried.

And dear god, no one has to see dating anyone who isn't Kim Kardasian "settling". I've had sex with women who aren't what society considers "above average" but it was still fantastic. And my girlfriend isn't a model but she and I share a connection that could not be replicated with anyone else.

A lot of the issue is society tries to input ideas about what is "sexy" into our heads and a large part of realizing sexual liberation (both for yourself and with your partner) is dismantling those ideas and throwing them in the trash.

Ugh. We have whole communities of these people (e.g. incels). I have female friends who will be single forever with impossibly long detailed lists of requirements that will never be met.

It's really quite sad.

On the other hand if you can buy into something that isn't considered highly desirable by society but is very prevalent, well, you can have a really, really good time.

I have no such detailed lists. I'm human and flawed, some of it stems from not accepting myself and a lack of self-love.

> not accepting myself and a lack of self-love

And you're aware of it! That's a very good first step towards fixing that!

Thank you, it wasnt long before I started thinking if I was undesirable because of my physical features AND my attitude.

It's a slow process and I hope I too can one day have a normal life, with someone by my side.

The physical features aren't nearly as important as you might think. Eg there's plenty of ugly actors who are nevertheless very attractive.

Your attitude is pretty good - you're open and eager to improve. Just continue working on yourself!

I think this is good, genetically. Nowadays, because of media, everyone knows how the ideal human looks like, and if you're not on par with that, then you'll think of yourself as pathetic.

Actually, I've realized this myself: my male friends who are tall and muscular have had many girlfriends, and the rest are still virgins.

But think about this: our society has naturally evolved to this stage. Before, males had fights to compare who had the best genes. Nowadays, we compare that through TV and media, and individuals without good genes keep themselves from passing them just through self hate.

Thank you for your kind words. I do need therapy, I would dismiss such suggestions when I was young and foolish, it's funny how a few years make you realise that one isn't normal as they perceived themselves to be.

I don't plan on quitting, and have taken active steps to help myself by trying to get fit (injuries and poor diet led to me being obese)

Thanks again!

Therapy is not a badge of shame to be sure.

When I was at a low in my life I too found working on my health improved my self-esteem. And when I started to feel better about myself ... well, people can sense that.

> I'm well under-averagely endowed, a member of an undesirable race, and quite frankly think the age for acting as a goof for me has passed. I don't know how/when to ask women out, and I'm afraid if it'll be interpreted as sexual harassment. I'm no good looking chap for it to be considered flirting, might as well endure loneliness than social suicide.

You are sabotaging yourself here.

You won't find a girlfriend as long as you believe this story to be true. Girls don't care that much about the looks of guys, but they do care that they are clean, well dressed, etc. They also care about confidence and successful men. But even then it doesn't matter that much.

We have an expression "On every pot there is a lid that fits". I've met girls that were attracted to older men, to asian guys, etc. You don't have to be attractive to the average girl, you just have to find that one person that fits with you.

Thank you. I probably have some deep seated issues that I seem to be working with, one of the women I had attracted to had said some remarks (about a third person) about these features and I implicitly assumed that most women looked for those qualities.

First, I sympathize with your pain. Don't let your lack of sex be something that reduces your value because it doesn't. For example, a masters degree is an achievement! That means you have a square mind on your shoulders and are willing to work hard. Those are admirable qualities.

I'll also say try not to listen to closely to the stereotypes. I see two in there, one that flirting will be considered harassment if you aren't good looking and the second is that women (or people in general) can't be sexually attracted to someone who isn't "good looking." The reality is many people are a lot more open minded than that. Tinder helps, and if you're more open minded as well about whom you're willing to be with, you might find someone fun and be surprised that you were never as unlovable as you thought you were.

Thank you for your kind words. I'm guilty of underestimating myself, and recently a friend told me that as I quoted $28/hour for building an e-commerce platform store.

I've never had attention from a woman, and usually I find it's just me being hopeless sending them mulitple texts and being annoying (and often neglected, as I have nothing of worth to offer). I stop I don't know how sweet nothings are uttered, I don't know what pillow talk would be like. I don't know how life with an other adult works. My only intimate experience are vicarious from books and films.

Maybe that's what life is about living one's own film with them as the protagonist.

Have you not ever wondered about people that are as much of a virgin and unloved as you are and yet are naively mirthful and genial with an unconsciously callous disregard for societal value around love and desire?

You're going to recommend Tinder? Most guys have an incredibly hard time even getting matches. I can't see how that is good advice.

Start failing. If you want a different outcome change your behavior and take some chances.

You will probably fail a lot because it's difficult, compatibility is rare, and we do a terrible job preparing men with appropriate dating behaviors. It can be very difficult but also rewarding.

Most people seek mates of higher value+loyalty to ensure their survival. The prevalence of this behavior is a testament to its evolutionary success.

Do you sincerely believe that you're a low value mate, or are you seeking to avoid discomfort?

Thank you for your kind words. I honestly don't think I'm a low value mate. I've demonstrated loyalty and my friends know this. But not yet a high value mate as I'm in the market for a job + student loans, fear of driving, etc.

I've always been risk averse due to the way I was brought up. Failure was death. I would avoid doing things that could have an outcome related to it, and unsurprisingly impacted my engineerong skills a lot. I would double check everything before executing code on even staging (and of course the Intern mishaps as usual).

I have started to work on myself and quite recently lost some weight and trying to get into some discernable shape. Can't thank you enough for taking your time out to help a fellow man, hope you have a wonderful evening and the rest of the weekend.

You're overthinking this. People don't add up the value of a "mate" and pick the highest valued one. They look for someone they get on well with. No one cares if you fear driving, no one cares if you have student loans. Maybe you should talk to friends about your problems, I know when I did I discovered everyone's got problems, mostly the same as mine, and no one gives a shit, including their girlfriends. No one's perfect.

Excellent. Potential value is still value. Discipline is value.

It's easy to tell you that I'm really intelligent, wealthy, and friendly, whether or not it's true. Much of dating is around finding ways to demonstrate/identify desired characteristics (e.g. "wealthy people don't tell you they're wealthy"). There are people who know how to play this game without having the underlying values they telegraph (leads to issues in the long run, avoid). The much maligned 'just be yourself' is actually entirely true, just firmly in the simple, not easy, category.

Love yourself, know your strengths, and don't give up. A rejection saves you time and moves you closer to the right person(s).

Lions have a hunt success rate of 19%. If they were human, they would give into despair after 3 attempts, convince themselves they're a failure, get even worse at hunting, then starve to death. Don't take failure personally.

Try seekingarrangment to experience flirting in real life without anxiety. You'll gain the skill and will be able to use it in regular interactions.

Check seduction forums and communites they have helped so many peopme like u... (pm for more details)

Also just go see a hooker already

Edit : and read himom comments down there

Do anything but this.

I respect myself and women to know this won't solve it. I don't really care for lack of sex, its the lack of love cuts deep.

As someone who used to be in your position for a long time, that was also my stance, and I'm very glad I didn't try to abate my loneliness with prostitutes or "seduction".

Please dont go this toxic route.

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