Air-dropping Tylenol-stuffed mice carcasses | Hacker News Reader

Air-dropping Tylenol-stuffed mice carcasses

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21 pointsjancona15 comments

Wikipedia has some useful information, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_tree_snake. In the invasive species section notice that the islands where the snake is spreading to all have US military bases of some form - the snakes seem adept at hiding in the undercarriage of the planes. The snake has the potential to devastate a lot of unique ecosystems across the Pacific and if it ever gets to Hawaii there will be endless opportunities for it to spread far and wide.

Well, that's one of the more interesting things I've read recently.

Hopefully it'll work better than attempts at rabbit control in Australia.

So... when will we see Tylenol-resistant snakes emerge? If some of the snakes on the island are already resistant, they're just selecting for them with this air-drop.

I think the method by which acetaminophen kills the snake is by harming the liver. Thus resistance can not be acquired - it works as a poison.

If an adult human takes 4g (4000mg) or more liver damage can occur. Obviously much less is needed for a snake.

The mode of action is not relevant. Look at the antibiotics and how they all work. They have different modes of action and the resitance mechanisms are quite varied too.

So however acetaminophen works, you can imagine a resistance mechanism.

Actually I don't exactly understand your reasoning on this.

Given that the method of delivery is all-or-nothing and nearly immediate, I don't see how a resistance could be developed.

We are not discussing e.g. XDR-resistant TB, where the levels of delivery of antibiotics to the TB mean that some of the bacteria die and some live.

The snake is a single organism in this case, and the liver metabolizes the drug, and the results of that metabolism are what cause the liver damage. As long as 80mg is enough to kill the largest snake that would swallow the bait.

Can you explain how a lethal dose of say, cyanide, delivered individually to humans, would eventually result in cyanide-resistant humans?

Take the snake example: imagine the dose delivered is ingested by most (if not all) the population. Now imagine that some snakes have a mutation that render this dose non-lethal, either making it completely harmless or just sub-lethal. The snakes carrying the mutation would survive.

The key part here (and in evolutionary theory) is that there is a pre-existing mutation to select for. If there isn't one, then we should see a local extinction.

Right, however, I find it vanishingly small in terms of probabilities that the combination of (liver metabolism mutation concerning this drug) and (snake still able to reproduce) exists.

I always thought snakes didn't seek out and consume prey that was already dead but apparently that isn't so from this tactic.

Yeah, that was what I thought too! I remember snakes having something more akin to heat vision - and thus meaning no dead prey. My facts might be outdated or just simply wrong. Better check my facts.

I did some googling and it seems that on a lot of the reptile boards they say that the only safe way to feed your snake is with dead mice.

If anyone is curious, as I was, apparently brown tree snakes are venomous (neurotoxin), but because of their rear-facing fangs in the back of their mouths, humans only get a trivial dose if bitten. So they're not considered dangerous to adults.

This is an interesting idea, but it will properly end the first time some important persons cat eats them.

Effects on cats were discussed in a USDA risk assessment of a similar program in 2002 (http://www.aphis.usda.gov/wildlife_damage/nwrc/publications/...) -- basically, it looks like cats are likely to die if they eat the poisoned mice, but cats didn't seem interested in them.

Also, if I'm reading the report correctly, then (at least in the 2002 program), the baits were prepared by inserting (somehow) acetaminophen tablets into mouse carcasses. I think a cat that began to eat one of these mice would be likely not to swallow the pills (just based on the fact that I've never managed to get a cat to take a pill hidden in cat food).

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