When banks abandoned American Samoa, the islands found a solution: public banks
washingtonpost.com
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We want it to be ubiquitous.
We want it to be close to free for retail customers.
We want it to not lose money on underperforming loans.
We want it to extend the social benefits of credit in the community, even if the community is very poor.
We want it to be very closely regulated, so that people never lose their money.
We want opening a bank to cost less than the net present value of all future banking revenue in American Samoa.
It’s really rough satisfying all these wants at the same time.
By doing this, the Chinese government is subsidizing entities that borrow from the bank (which are often SOEs) without directly taxing its citizens.
To satisfy double-entry accounting rules, banks actually create deposits from loans, not the other way around. Deposits do help with liquidity for fulfilling interbank transfers (and rules now have liquidity requirements that deposits count towards), but as long as they are not insolvent the bank can also just borrow the reserves it needs from other banks or the central bank.
See this explainer from the Bank of England (PDF warning) - https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/-/media/boe/files/quarterly-...
I guess it's a holdover from classical economic theory - banks did work more like that a century ago when that kind of economics was being worked out (pre-WWI gold-standard days) but the modern economy is different!
I don't want Fees, while giving me 0 interest.
I don't need a physical location, but would like a place I can sent a check to. Just an ATM? Forget the fancy office no-one goes in anymore? Oh yea, technological security would be appreciated. Never understood why they don't sent an email everytime I use a debt card?
I don't care about the loan because they will never give me one. I get it. This is America. The place where the poor get one chance, usually a high interest credit card.
(This is what most America's want. Most of us are barely getting by, and I believe banks have colluded on fees. And they are still redlining. Loans--well it's so much more than good credit, and pay stubs. It's basically dad signing away the family house in order for most of us to get a decent loan, and some of us would never take that risk.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonpartisan_League
As that article puts it: "On behalf of small farmers and merchants, the Nonpartisan League advocated state control of mills, grain elevators, banks and other farm-related industries in order to reduce the power of corporate political interests"
Oh my.
https://slate.com/business/2018/04/kirsten-gillibrands-ambit...
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EC0G7pY4wRE >> https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/local-banks...
It also provides good rates on student loans as well.
Cost of having remote branch for any business in these conditions is high, so profits should match it. It makes sense that they need local, more efficient, solutions for the problem.
> That model breaks down when banks span states or countries. The big banks with tiny branches in American Samoa are happy to take deposits from locals, but when it comes to lending that money back out, it makes cold, actuarial sense to focus on bigger, safer clients elsewhere.
This is another pretty good general argument against bank consolidation. In addition to increasing economic fragility during crises, large banks also neglect real communities that need their services during the good times.
A public bank, in contrast, does not have to put this absolute profit first, giving them the flexibility to enter markets where they might not be as successful, but they don't have nearly the competition for their services. Additionally, since this is operated by the state, they can benefit from business loans and interest as another form of revenue, giving them room to cut taxes or improve services.
EDIT: As consolidation creates both larger businesses and larger reserves of capital, this causes the bank to make more conservative loans. They must play more defensively. As these banks retreat from "riskier" markets, it leaves genuine demand behind. Look at the article's description of "predatory lending" near the top of the article.
Because there is this pent-up demand, a local bank could open a branch that captures some of that demand, and incentivizes locals with higher returns than the international bank because they can charge a higher interest rate. But the IntBank wouldn't still enter this market because the size is still too tiny to warrant their attention and/or the interest rates locally don't move the needle in their global reserves. It's literally too small to be worth the effort.
It's not a tragedy of the commons unless something artificially prevents banks from charging a profitable rate for loans. If no other bank is doing business there, and if any bank which does do business is allowed to make a profit, then certainly one will. Indeed, that's what the 'loan sharks' are doing: providing desired services at a market-clearing rate.
It seems to me that a public bank will end up having to be subsidised from the general fund to cover its losses, which in the case of American Samoa probably isn't very large.
It’s a whole lot of work to serve 55,000 people with a GDP of $13,000 per capita. There just isn’t enough economic activity to make this work from an international bank.
If it improves the local economic conditions by keeping money flowing in the local economy, then such a ban seems like a reasonable trade-off for the common good.
Being a greedy individualist, by focusing on chasing after marginally higher savings account interests rates, is likely going to be self-defeating in this case. Your dozens of dollars in extra interest payments are unlikely to compensate you for the other economic hardships you'll encounter because there's no local bank that will bother to make loans to your community.
Sure, but isn’t that problem solved by credit unions?
Also, most credit unions either use federal (national) credit unions and large banks for services. We bought our cash from JP Morgan, sold our mortgages to US Bank and kept reserves with a federal CU. Without these services, expenses would have been higher or services would have been reduced.
Sure, but this happens at big banks as well. My company's bank is part of the Santander Group, which literally has trillions of assets, but they use Wells Fargo for many services. Every bank uses other banks for certain services at this point.
I don’t have a problem with the co-existence and business relations of these different types of financials, but the person to which I replied did.
It's worth noting I did not travel internationally or do any international business. Also, their ATM was the old green screen style as late as 2015 and did not accept deposits.
Yes, the lagging technology is a big problem. We were still renting a T1 and two phone lines from AT&T for connecting to online banking on a server in the break room. We did manage to switch from 24 hour to relatively instant reconciliation of things like ATM withdrawals, but our tech was badly lagging state of the art retail banking. In some ways this kept service more personable, but also caused account attrition. And I don’t think we were especially worse than other CUs of our size.
And yes, I fought hard for any change we could afford, and yes, the board was disinterested. One member owned a paper supply company and actually pushed back against e-statement marketing so he could supply more paper. It might as well have been a scene from The Office.
Banks don't have to be international to support international companies.
(genuine question, I have no idea how banking works)
What I was pointing out was the arbitrage of collecting cash locally (low risk) whilst seeking low-risk lending opportunities elsewhere. This actually extracts cash from the local community without providing offsetting borrowing opportunities. The community is net worse off.
Rational from the bank's perspective.
the defining characteristic of arbitrage is that it is risk-free. taking deposits and loaning out money is not risk-free (because someone might not pay you back in full), so it's not arbitrage.
using dollars to buy yen cheaply and then selling it back for more dollars in the same transaction is an example of arbitrage.
But the internet can fix this. It allows for the creation of markets and coordination very, very cheaply. Crowd funding, p2p lending, Youtube, Patreon, open source software, and yes, cryptocurrencies -- these are the key tools of resistance that will allow the little fish to carve out some measure of autonomy. This is the point. Trillions are locked away in the global mega-banks and the bank-likes. Governments across the globe embrace neoliberal policies and actively disinvest in their own people, cutting services and raising fees. Inequality is rising faster and faster, everywhere. What else is there to do? If the proletariat cannot access the private money locked away in the banks and the public money has mysteriously all disappeared then they have no choice but to literally make their own money and seize the means of production. It's this project, the recapitalization of the proletariat, that is the great challenge of the 21st century.
I don't think that makes sense. If you don't allow massively consolidated domestic banks to operate in your country, why would you allow massively consolidated foreign banks to do so instead and "colonize" you?
> But the internet can fix this. It allows for the creation of markets and coordination very, very cheaply. Crowd funding, p2p lending, Youtube, Patreon, open source software, and yes, cryptocurrencies -- these are the key tools of resistance that will allow the little fish to carve out some measure of autonomy.
Personally, I'm moving on from this kind of techno-optimism. I don't think those things can fill these void left by a lack of community banks. Those have their attention focused on their local communities, but your techno-institutions focus their attention on what's attention-grabbing globally. While the latter may be different from what the big banks focus on, it doesn't fix the problems that community banks solve.
These days if you're a country and you want to grow then you need capital investment. Now that war and conquest and slavery are severely frowned upon there's really no other way to achieve growth but to get some rich <strike>lord</strike> investor to give you a bunch of money on "friendly" terms. (And for the investor class it's all about how "friendly" you are. Countries that are friendly to investors can thrive. Countries that aren't usually get fucked. This is the real reason China is so deeply scary to the global investor class.)
The capital investment needed to sustain growth can either come from domestic sources or foreign sources. Of course if your country has very limited financial infrastructure it basically must come from abroad. Again, for various reasons, as the Cubans have discovered, you can't really self-bootstrap a modern industrial economy. (Unless you're the British Empire and you're willing to go out and conquer half the planet and feed that into your nascent industries. But again this sort of thing is no longer kosher these nowadays.) So you must go begging to the foreign creditors who will demand "friendly" terms not unlike what the British offered eg India.
Note that this dynamic is play even for powerful and developed countries. The reason Britain continues to defend and support and bail out its highly dysfunctional banks is because it knows very well what will happen if those banks collapse. The British private sector will get the capital it desperately needs to grow from foreign banks. And once that happens it would be completely at the mercy of foreign creditors. This is the real reason nations must defend/bailout their banks.
> I don't think those things can fill these void left by a lack of community banks.
There's no such thing as a community bank as you imagine it. You can create mission oriented banks (eg banks focused on some credit-starved minority) but these are rarely profitable in the classical sense. In the end the only "defense" against global banks is to have your own global banks. The only defense against being indebted to foreign creditors is being able to capitalize the majority (50+%) of your own growth.
The idea that the bank is obligated to balance the scales of lending and borrowing seems odd to me as well. I keep a bank account for myself personally of course, and if some day I needed to take a big loan out to start a business I wouldn't consider my decades of having a checking account with the bank as obligating them to extend me the loan regardless of the credit risk they think I am. I voluntarily signed up for a bank account because it's good for me, and if there's nothing in the contract about them having to make me a loan in the future I shouldn't expect one and neither should they.
Just as banks should have no moral obligation to make certain loans, neither should specific jurisdictions have an obligation to allow large banks to displace local banks that may better serve their purposes, if they so choose.
You're both right as far as I can see. I don't understand what you're disagreeing with.
A great way to grow a community is to take any excess resources (proxied by money) and reinvest locally. However, if all the members bank with a multinational bank then the money (hence resources) will probably end up in a city in another country. The community won't grow.
If there was a systemic bias (beyond economies of scale) that favors big banks at the expense of community banks, that might squeeze the life out of small productive communities that the banks view as 'high risk' through a lack of knowledge about their circumstances. That would be a problem, but that issue is not related to this thread.
If the foreign cities are just more productive, then hopefully the community members will be better off because they can import enough to make up for the lack of local infrastructure.
That's libertarian dogma that elides the whole world outside of its narrow logic.
Corporations are ultimately meant to be agents that further the public good. They're not vehicles for the unrestrained pursuit of private profit to the exclusion of all other concerns. If natural economic incentives are not enough to motivate them to act in the interests of the public, then its the job of government and its regulations to compel a solution. To wit: if bank consolidation causes public goods such as community lending to be neglected, then government should forbid bank mergers and break up large banks until it no longer is.
That looks like a complicated question that does not have a single answer. And a government can spend money with much finer granularity than it can tax or regulate, so it is very likely that letting the banks concentrate (up to reasonable levels) is the correct answer.
Corporations have rarely (if ever) been meant to further public good. They have almost always been for "unrestrained pursuit of profit to the exclusion of all other concerns".
I agree that as soon as they start acting outside public interest they should be reigned in by regulators, the problem is that regulators tend to turn a blind eye when a corporation can pay them to.
Sorry, no time for sources, but you might want to research history of limited liability. The whole raison d'etre of corporations is to finance projects that are too risky for unlimited liability but still big enough good for public that public is willing to give limited liability protection to owners. Same applies to IP. The purpose of copyright is not to give/guarantee income to creators, but to facilitate generation of works of art to the benefit of public. For some reason lot of people are confused about these.
The reason being, their paycheck literally depends on being confused about this :). LLCs and copyrights may be intended for furthering public good, but people starting LLC or exploiting copyright protection are there for their personal profits. The public is, unfortunately, very bad at ensuring the tools created for public good are actually used for public good.
That's wrong. Corporations don't have an independent existence; they're legal entities created by law. The laws that allow for corporations were not written to better allow for the "unrestrained pursuit of profit to the exclusion of all other concerns," they were written because corporate legal entities were judged to be beneficial to the common good of the home country.
What they're meant to do is distinct from what will naturally do when their behavior is unchecked.
I think it's somewhat analogous to patents, which are rights created by law for the express purpose of incentivizing invention and encourage eventual public domain use.
Where does that leave a corporation like the New York Times, which may wish to publish articles in contravention of lawmakers’ ideas of the common good?
> The majority ruled that the Freedom of the Press clause of the First Amendment protects associations of individuals in addition to individual speakers, and further that the First Amendment does not allow prohibitions of speech based on the identity of the speaker. Corporations, as associations of individuals, therefore have free speech rights under the First Amendment.
If you’re not referring to Citizens United, well, it’s still a relevant precedent that would prevent your plan from working :)
Thousands and thousands of us can so easily be shouted down by massive corporations showering money on our representatives.