Aibo – A new story begins | Hacker News Reader

Aibo – A new story begins

aibo.sony.jp

99 pointscromulent52 comments

>Every new face is another friend to be made

>learns the environment

>aibo [...] constantly updating its data in the cloud

>apps

Hey sorry to be a cynical brat, but does this imply that it's just another Internet-of-Sting like the Roomba-style robot from Xiaomi (a backdoor mapping agent)? As it costs like 1000 USD, it better not pull that kind of bullshit.

But how do I know? Trust is a huge factor here, and what Sony shows here doesn't impress me a bit. The page does not say anything about data and privacy protection. If Sony does not directly do it, how does Sony vet the third party apps to make sure third party apps don't pull that kind of bullshit?

The last thing I want to hear is to get a blackmail from a $1000 robotic dog, you know. "Last Tuesday, you listened to a pirated CD from Sony. Your dog has accidentally used that CD for a toy while you're busy making love with the housemaid."

I had the same exact though. This is just crazy - it is also able to take pictures and upload them to the cloud.

I can't find anything that claims Xiaomi vacuums are spying on us (would maps of rugs be useful to collect?) Do you have a reference?

I remember reading that the latest Roomba vacuums were uploading their movement patterns to the cloud to "optimize the cleaning experience". I don't personally have a reference.

A set of highly detailed house maps, with strong indicators of the traffic patterns (via dirt detection) and pet ownership (abnormally high volumes of shortish hair; tends to clog filters faster), would be exceptionally useful as input to your advertising profile.

I have the feeling Roombas aren't capable of dirt-diving yet, even if paired with the cloud.

You likely read that, but the story was that some exec cited it as an idea. It was reported as factual and actual, and that's how it will be remembered.

My telling you won't matter, as eventually one or both of us will forget, and the lie lives on.

It is not an idea from an exec, and that is not a lie.

>https://youtu.be/uhyM-bhzFsI?t=607

Not if you live in Europe thanks to GDPR.

If you consent to that traffic data being uploaded, the company would have to explicitly say what it's for and can't just sell it in its raw form, with your personal information attached, nor used for profiling.

I'd think a set of highly detailed house maps with strong indicators of traffic patterns and pet ownership together with vacuum movement patterns would be great for optimizing the cleaning experience by enabling you to identify cleaning strategies that clean quickest.

https://www.kaspersky.com/blog/xiaomi-mi-robot-hacked/20632/

The talk at 34C3 at 10m:00

https://youtu.be/uhyM-bhzFsI?t=607

You have a right to be cynical, this is the same Sony that distributed rootkits on audio CDs they sold only a decade ago.

No, it isn't. This is ソニー株式会社. The rootkit scandal was Sony BMG, of which Sony America was a partial owner.

Like most megacorps, Sony isn't a single monolithic entity.

Damn, even years later it's still prohibitively expensive. 198k yen (~2k USD) and 90k yen (~900 USD) lifetime or 2980 yen (~30 USD) per month for the "basic plan" which is required for the AI services.

What in the world is the market for this?

Robotic pets are often used in therapy for people with dementia.

http://www.parorobots.com/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFvGAL9tesM

Japanese people who would love to have a dog but can’t because they live in a tiny apartment/would have no time for it.

Japan, the country where mp3 playing toilets was a huge hit.

Lonely Japanese people. https://world.wng.org/2017/11/lonely_in_japan

That does seem to be a lot of money for what seems to be just a gadget. However, it's more than that. It's a robot substitute for a dog. The estimated cost of owning a real dog over its lifetime is approximately $27,000 - $42,000.

It's hard not to think of Do Androids Dream of Human Sheep when I see Aibo

But it's not, really. At this point it's nowhere near advanced enough to actually replace a dog, and, honestly, I don't think it even replaces 1/10th of a dog, which might justify it's ~$3k lifetime price tag.

Don't get me wrong, I want this to succeed. I live in an apartment and work in an office that doesn't allow pets. I want more than anything to have a dog but stop myself because it'd be cruel even with doggy daycare and Rover. A robot dog would be perfect for me. But this is nowhere close to a robot dog.

> A robot dog would be perfect for me. But this is nowhere close to a robot dog.

It is a robot dog. It is a very imperfect, artificial representation of a dog that doesn't really replace the real thing. It's just cheaper and more convenient than the real thing. If you've ever read Philip K Dick's short story, everyone longs for a real pet as opposed to fake robotic ones.

Of course this may change as technology progresses.

> The estimated cost of owning a real dog over its lifetime is approximately $27,000 - $42,000.

Wat? Our dog takes about $30 worth of food per month. Annual vet visits total about $150 (including heartworm meds). If it lives to be 15, we're looking at about a $10,000 lifetime investment. If she got really sick and needed a $5,000 surgery, it'll still be about half the cost of your low end estimate.

Also, my dog loves to cuddle. While Aibo can do some things my dog can't, my dog can do many, many things that Aibo never will.

What about hiring a dog walker, someone to take care of it when you're away, grooming, training, etc?

What about them? Why even own a dog in that case?

I don't follow. Plenty of people hire a dog walker for when they are at work. And go on vacation for a couple of weeks over the course of a year. Should that disqualify them as dog owners?

Some people don't need a dog walker (someone is home), grooming for short-hair breeds may just involve the occasional bath, some dogs tolerate toenail clippings easily, and you can do your own training with a little time and love.

So costs can vary wildly depending on your situation.

I suppose that was my perspective. We can wash our Boston terrier when she gets grubby, and she lets us cut her nails. She doesn't need any other grooming. She also practically trained herself too, and happily sleeps in her cage (or "den") while we're not at home during the day.

So sure, even living in the Bay Area, we're probably on the low end of average maintenance. But I also know a huge number of Midwest outdoor dogs that eat Ol' Roy food and don't see a vet unless they get something contagious. I'm sure you can spend $30K on a dog, but I've seen evidence that you can spend a fifth of that and still have a happy, healthy dog.

This is probably the estimated average cost for all dogs, big & small, in all parts of the US: large metros, suburbia, and boonies. The cost is not uniform depending on the type of dog, area, and owner (think the cost of accessories, grooming, 'day care' and travel). It probably doesn't factor in pet health insurance either. This said, I didn't look at the methodology or data.

Depends on the type/size of dog, and the quality of life you provide. For a small dog, $30 a month for food might provide quality food. For my dog (a 60+ lbs lab/pit mix), $30 would be horrible quality. Flea/Tick/Worm/etc medication is ~$10-15 a month. Treats, an antler every now and then, etc. starts to add up.

On top of that, in many American households the dog serves as a substitute for a child (as is made obvious by language such as "fur baby", "dog mom" etc.). And the cost of rearing a child is another order of magnitude higher. So, if you replace the child with a dog, and then replace the dog with an Aibo, you're looking at a cost that's two orders of magnitude lower. That's a bargain.

Get a library card - free in many countries - and you can replace the child with a dog with a robot with a book about having a robot instead of a dog instead of a child, for no money at all!

I think the jump from having children to having a toy robot is still a bit too far. In a few decades maybe, if and when AI has come to fruition (that is, real AI, not the machine-learning fad which is so much en vogue at the moment). Until then I think these toy robots are just that, toys. They might be fun, just like other toys. People might get attached to them, just like they can to other toys.

> In a few decades maybe, if and when AI has come to fruition (...)

Assuming the EU's human brain simulation project comes to fruition, I wonder at one point we'll be able to raise a human child consciousness in VR—sort of a Tamagotchi but for an actual human consciousness.

The AI services are accessed through a built in LTE modem. So you can't really filter it even if you wanted to.

Wait! This is basically the most important thing to do - you really want to know what what it's sending back to Sony - and without hacking a GSM tower. No, really, who would voluntarily agreed to something like this?!

I like how it scratches itself, implying that Sony has leapfrogged the competition in miniaturization and invented the Robot Flea.

Dogs scratching themselves is common and not necessarily an indicator of having fleas.

Humor is commonly used by Humons to attempt to connect with one another and distract themselves from the inherent absurdity of their lives; you need not necessarily interpret their communication entirely literally when you have a suspicion that they may be employing Humor.

I wonder if the aging population of Japan had anything to do with the comeback.

The NYT did a really nice video feature on the Aibo fan following a while back, the elderly couple featured must be pretty excited https://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/18/technology/robotica-sony-...

I'm amazed it's taken this long for things like this to make a comeback, now that neural-net tech has progressed so far. Being able to develop a complex relationship with an ML system rather than just a handful of floating parameters sounds pretty interesting (yes, I know that's technically what neural nets are underneath, but the point holds).

In 2007 a funny teacher bought a pair and made us write meta DSLs for Aibo. According to the industry it was advanced but in terms of robotics it was so damn primitive.. and for today ML (and note U-ML, we used their MOF) is probably incomensurably better.

The videos in the website have such a dystopian feel.

To folks who are complaining the trade-off between it's price and what it does offer: this dog is more about a robotic toy with animatronics similar to that of spot-mini than a cloud powered AI (i.e. siri/cortana/google). You are buying an AI powered hollywood level animatronic toy for 2 grands, I wouldn't say this is too expensive.

I wouldn't say that it's on par with with a spot mini. Walking and movement seems pretty slow and rough. It's really too bad that advancements in actuator technology haven't made it into consumer robots.

I hope AIBO RoboCup soccer returns as a result.

Probably I'm not their market target, but what for do I want a Aibo? I prefer a real dog.

What most people crave is a robotic servant.

Robots can emulate enough personality to offer low-maintenance companionship. Even Alexa and Google Assistant become part of the family, to some degree. Maybe Aibo provides a fraction of what you're looking for in an animal companion, but it's enough for some people.

not new, wasn't this from november 2017?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15598783

Is it just me or does this look mildly terrifying? IMO, this is solidly in uncanny valley territory.

It does not smell or sh*t which will make million households happy.

And it can't suffer.

Its movements are really slow and choppy. I bet it can’t even run...

The uncanny valley is not even in sight. I guess I’m going back to this week’s Westworld...

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