The baby formula crime ring | Hacker News Reader

The baby formula crime ring

nytimes.com

52 pointsramgorur17 comments

Forget about counterfeits, just imagine how much of the 3rd-party stuff sold on Amazon must be stolen.

Here in Portland there was a recent bust of a lego theft ring. You have to wonder how much of this ends up on Amazon or ebay:

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2018/04/se_port...

About two years ago, when our first child needed formula, we briefly considered buying from Amazon until we read about the comingling/counterfeiting issue. We decided to buy from Whole Foods instead (funny enough with the Amazon purchase recently). We wanted someplace where we trusted the supply chain, and that wasn’t Amazon. Now we use Costco (we pay for our membership, but piggyback off a family member’s prime membership although we’ve phased out almost all Amazon purchases for Costco, Target, or Wal Mart).

I would not trust Amazon for anything that you’re going to consume. You can’t trust who supplied it, and I have a great deal of skepticism that you’d be able to hold someone accountable if there was a health issue from consumption of a counterfeit product.

I am a bit confused, When you buy from Amazon, isn’t there an explicit indication whether you are buying from Amazon itself vs “marketplace” seller? Shouldn’t stuff direct from Amazon be legit?

No, Amazon mixes inventory. You should not trust Amazon with anything that is expensive or you put into your body. A product gets high ratings and is successful, then counterfeiters flood the market with a fake product that you end up inadvertently buying.

A recent example is Eclipse glasses that were purchased on Amazon. Since the inventory was co-mingled and Amazon doesn't have the time or expertise they refunded most purchases of the glasses both from legitimate and illegitimate sellers.

I believe this is only the case in US. If you're buying from Amazon in EU the stock advertised as "sold by Amazon" is actually their own stock.

Do you have a source for that? I tried finding an answer to this a while ago and was left a little unsure in the end.

I could be mistaken, but my understanding is that there is no indicator if comingled inventory is enabled or disabled for a SKU, and that even product sold “by Amazon” could be comingled.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13926015

That is no guarantee it seems, even for really expensive items.

Go to Youtube and search for "chaseontwowheels" and "rocks", you'll see an interesting story in three parts about a guy trying to order a high end camera from Amazon.

I've received counterfeit electronic goods from a Chinese third-party seller before.

> I would not trust Amazon for anything that you’re going to consume.

Likewise. I've gotten flagrantly counterfeit body wash / shampoo and the only thing I buy on Amazon now is books, because they're the only thing that won't cause any problems to me if they're counterfeit.

The risk of counterfeited food/drink/personal care products/electronics just not worth it.

Here in the Netherlands they actually (for a time) limited Nutrilon sales to everyone as the legal way even was profitable: Buy the stuff here from the store, take it with you in your luggage (and simply pay for the fees) to China and sell it there. The result being empty shelves and people with kids not being able to buy it. As far as I know there was some theft involved but not more than the legal buyouts.

Just a few manufacturers, consumers that don't have choices, astronomical prices...

Where have I seen this before?!

I wish a proper writer wrote about this. The Times one is terrible.

I had assumed this was going to be something to do with the Chinese daigou buying agents in Australia.

I was stuck in a pharmacy the other night behind 7 Chinese guys, all buying 4 cans of formula each (the limit), all sharing the same card.

I don’t think that is illegal exactly, but wow it’s annoying.

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/australian-companies-still-need-...

I found the way they basically had to entrap her in the end to be a bit disconcerting. To have one of her suppliers introduce her to an undercover agent who is acting as a dodgy supplier and then wait for her accept the deal of a lifetime.

It's a staged deal and she accepts it. It's like being found guilty of thought crime.

That's not what entrapment is. She had every chance to walk away, and on multiple occasions willfully ignored the answers to her questions about the source of the property.

Police are very good at avoiding entrapment, and this woman knowingly committed a crime. An example of actual entrapment would involve the undercover agent threatening to commit violence or even to report her to authorities unless she went through with the deal.

http://lawcomic.net/guide/?p=633

The linked article says this about Alicia Tondreau-Leve:

    When Dattadeen and Tondreau-Leve were still close, Tondreau-Leve 
    often spoke to her of her anger at losing the home she and her 
    husband had owned in Massachusetts — a stately four-bedroom 
    Colonial on an acre of land. Visiting from Florida, while Alan was 
    still living there, she found it so upsetting to be in the house, 
    which she knew by then that they would lose, that she sometimes 
    preferred to spend time in a rented R.V. Formula Mom became a means 
    of redemption and reinvention.

I found the following comment by Florida attorney general Pam Bondi disconcerting (Alicia Tondreau-Leve was sentenced to 20 years in prison):

    The Leves’ sentences struck me as severe, and I asked Pam Bondi, 
    the Florida attorney general, if she agreed. “I wish she’d been 
    locked up for as long as humanly possible for what she did,” she 
    said of Tondreau-Leve. “Had she used her wits to start a legit 
    business, she could have been incredibly successful — a true 
    entrepreneur.”

But if that were Pam Bondi's wish, wonder why she offered a plea deal before the case went to trial:

    Before trial, the prosecutors presented a deal that would have meant much less 
    prison time for Alicia and mere probation for Alan.

Also, this is the same Pam Bondi who in 2013 [1]:

    Bondi has been criticized for election fundraising activities, 
    including questions raised about contributions from Donald Trump 
    and his associates. The Florida Attorney General's office received 
    at least 22 fraud complaints about Trump University. In 2013 a 
    spokesperson for Bondi announced her office was considering joining 
    a lawsuit initiated by New York's Attorney General against Trump 
    regarding tax fraud. Four days later 'And Justice for All', a PAC 
    that supported Bondi's re-election campaign received a $25,000 
    donation from the Donald J. Trump Foundation, after which Bondi 
    declined to join the lawsuit against Trump University.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pam_Bondi#Controversies

If the formula ingredients are so cheap why not just buy each of the components in bulk and mix your own? The components are all listed on the packaging and can't be that difficult to obtain in bulk and good quality. The relative quantities I'm sure are proprietary but could easily be estimated from information available in pediatric nutritional literature (maybe paywalled but worth the investment).

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