"Everybody Draw Mohammed Day" cartoonist goes into hiding on FBI advice
businessweek.com
businessweek.com
We don't have freedom of speech if a foreign-based extremist can remotely destroy your life if you say something he doesn't approve of.
[1] That means continuing to be published too.
[2] The British managed to do this with Salman Rushdie.
Worth thinking about? Absolutely.
Toxic to Hacker News? Unfortunately.
Count the unproductive conversations we're bound to have here. Flag burning? The actions of moderate muslims in response to crazy people? Comparisons between Islam and the mafia? Gun rights? Al Gore? ASCII art of Mohammed? Short skirts and rape?
It's almost, when you look at it, as if there's some sort of Bayesian classification you could use to detect toxic articles without even having to know that the actual article was about politics or religion (or in this case politics and religion simultaneously).
In the meantime, I flagged this, and you should too.
~O:-(
Terry Jones was just plain dumb to propose burning the Koran (not least because he would be up in arms if the Bible were to be burned). But in my view, muslims who are offended by Koran burnings should be equally as offended when people burn American flags and effigies in the name of Islam. Yet somehow I think their concern dies down for the latter, and I view it as a real problem.
But I have to say, the muslim clerics defending the Islamic center in NYC are really a credit to their religion when they oppose the Koran burning not on religious grounds, but because it will endanger American troops.
1- You realize this is a belief you hold, not a fact, right?
2- Allegiance to one's religion and one's nation often hold different importance to different people.
If it does, and it's just not reported, then I'm wrong.
right - you think they should be doing. that's fine and all, but the point is you're assuming _they_ should view the world the way you do. which they clearly do not.
("they", of course, being millions of people, or at least their religious leaders. let's leave the issue of painting such a large and diverse population with the same brush for another time, shall we?")
Hmm. That's the sort of kindness that you get from the mafia (or at least the mafia shown in films):
You really shouldn't do that now; who knows what our friends will do if you do. No, no of course we respect your rights to freedom - just, y'know we wouldn't want anything to happen to your little head now would we, capiche.
I don't think the mafia comparison is helpful.
So it won't be Muslims that are doing the burning and violent demonstration then?
Perhaps it's a stretch but this is clear - someone drew a picture suggesting that Islam may not be completely peaceful and the resulting self-enragement led to Muslims causing many deaths and much violent destruction around the world.
IMO it was simply a decision to be offended in order to excuse violent demonstration and terrorise none Muslims into submission, and it seems to have worked well.
http://zombietime.com/mohammed_image_archive/islamic_mo_full... some Islamic depictions of Mohammed http://www.dinocrat.com/archives/2006/02/04/shall-we-now-bur...
Because everyone knows crazy fringe faction is full of crazy people, and speaking out against them isn't going to accomplish anything, aside from giving the crazy people more of the attention they so fervently desire.
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/285123/christians_i...
There's really no difference between a flag and a holy book. They are both inanimate objects that some significance has been attached to (be it nationalistic or religious).
Burning the Koran doesn't endanger US troops. Assholes whose culture that belongs back in 700 AD endanger troops.
Al Gore's documentary didn't endanger discovery channel employees, some asshole put them in danger.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theo_van_Gogh_(film_director)#A...
It is peoples' own choice if they want to heed this or not. I personally would avoid angering any group of murderous extremists, no matter their religious affiliation.
This is, of course, precisely their strategy. By being irrational and murderous every time their demands are not met, they slowly advance in the cultural war.
First, they stop us from drawing their prophet. Once that gain is cemented, they can start agitating for something else: maybe they'll tell us that our eating pork is offensive to them. And it'll take a while, but by a combination of extremists who actively kill people who eat pork and "moderates" who merely sit around tut-tutting and saying that while they personally deplore violence they can certainly see how somebody else might get upset about it.
Then alcohol, then unveiled women, then... who knows? The eventual goal is, of course, to eradicate everything other than Islam, and while I don't think you can get there from here, I can at least see how they think you can get there from here.
As such, I applaud anyone who is willing to stand up and say "No, sod off" to the whole idea.
For instance, Random House recently bowed to pressure and did not publish a novel about Mohammed's 9 year old wife.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=9350312...
It is peoples' own choice if they want to heed this or not. I personally would avoid angering a group any group of murderous extremists, no matter their religious affiliation.
I might be crazy but to me that reads as "people should just avoid doing anything that could possibly offend extremist muslims".
Similarly, if you want to leave your laptop on a park bench and walk away, that's your prerogative, but you should know the possible consequences.
Which is pretty common sense... If you don't want to be hated, then don't commit hurtful and damnit actions.
The political argument is whether citizens of other countries, specifically western countries like the United States, should respect other countries who have a clear majority religion that isn't necessarily Christianity.
you can vote me down, but that is the reality.
Freedom is not free, and I appreciate everybody who defends it at their own personal risk. But part of that freedom is that it is your own choice to take that risk.
When someone tells us to shut up or they will kill us, Americans have only talked louder.
Our principles have never been free of cost.
http://media2.myfoxdc.com//photo/2010/09/16/EverybodyDrawMoh...
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/07/world/middleeast/07yemen.h...
At the same time, based on the Danish uproar, she had to know this was a possible outcome.
Do you
A. Run? B. Fight?
During the Civil Rights movement in the south, Rabbi William B. Silverman stood up for the rights of blacks. Some racists threatened him and his children. Instead of backing down or running away, he got a .38spl revolver (and became a deputy sheriff), and drove his kids to school every day vs. having them ride the bus; no one touched him.
From a practical perspective, is it a bigger sacrifice to change your name, give up your job, and go into hiding, or to spend a few thousand dollars becoming credibly able to defend yourself with a firearm?
You sound like you would, I know I would, but there holds a large body of people for whom that is just not an option they would pursue. Those with a doctrine of non-violence, turning the other cheek, etc., are the people I have in mind.
However, owning and carrying a firearm is a great defence against muggers and burglars, but a lousy defence against assassins. The thing about gunfights is that the guy who shoots first has a huge advantage.
John Hinckley Jr was neither particularly competent nor particularly sane, but he managed to shoot Ronald Reagan and not get shot himself despite the fact that Reagan was surrounded by quite a few armed guards at the time. And there was another president who got shot by some random bozo in a good hiding place, whom I shall refuse to mention because this is the internet and you just know it would immediately summon a horde who want to discuss their conspiracy theories.
Basically, if I had people actively trying to assassinate me, the simple act of carrying a gun would probably only increase my confidence by a few percent.
Non-law-abiding potential-assassins aren't going to have difficulty becoming non-law-abiding armed potential-assassins. Armed but historically fairly incompetent assassin vs. somewhat trained, alert, armed target has a lot better odds for her than vs. an unaware target. She would get more value out of training than the weapon itself, in that it would allow her to spot threats, but there are definitely situations where then being armed would be the best response to a threat (particularly in the hope).
There are some instances where people chose to pick up a weapon and attempt to kill people because some fundamentalist said so.
http://topics.nytimes.com/topics/reference/timestopics/peopl... "The Obama administration's decision to authorize the killing by the Central Intelligence Agency of a terrorism suspect who is an American citizen"