This. The point of these policies is that we might be missing some fucking amazing talent and not know just because of historical reasons.
Oh please. For decades, in the US, there have been programs designed to attract women and minorities to engineering and tech careers. I am of the opinion* that in 2018, women or minorities who are are not in tech, are not in tech because of choices they freely made. Any remnants of discrimination are negligible compared to the advantages that have been heaped upon them.
*I'm sure many disagree with the opinion expressed above, and that's OK. I'm sure many also agree with it. But I would bet that holy hell would break loose if I were to express that opinion in a discussion forum of a FOSS project that has been co-opted by the SJW scolds. And your opinion, which I was responding to, would be permitted.
So you're assuming because of my opinion, I would not treat you fairly?
Of course! Anyone who deviates from the SJW line is de facto a bad person! There's no need for logic and reasoning when you deal with people like me! Just cast aspersions on my character and signal your virtue to the rest of your tribe!
EDIT:
> So you're assuming because of my opinion, I would not treat you fairly?
I'm assuming because of your opinion that you might misjudge me as a token minority, underserving of my position, perhaps because you catch me on an off day, or because you judge me to be an SJW because of the way I act. You're only human, and we all are susceptible to misjudgment, stereotyping, etc. It's just the human condition.
> Anyone who deviates from the SJW line is de facto a bad person!
To be clear, I didn't respond to you because I think you're a bad person, because I don't, and I don't know you. I responded because I have some vague hope that mutual understanding can be had on the internet through discussion. But responses like this make me feel like a fool for having hope.
> You're only human, and we all are susceptible to misjudgment, stereotyping, etc.
Yes, double-blind trials were invented to prevent an experimenter from nudging results in a desired direction. In the case of increasing diversity, the desired direction is explicitly specified and encouraged.
https://github.com/opal/opal/issues/941
Someone, on their personal twitter account, made a remark that Coraline Ada Ehmke found offensive. Coraline noticed that he was a contributor to the Opal project. So Coraline opened an issue on the project, called him an ugly name, and petitioned to have him removed from the project.
I will not quietly submit to bossy bullies like Coraline Ada Ehmke, and I will defend the victims of Coraline Ada Ehmke.
What say you, chickenfries?
https://twitter.com/sarahmei/status/990265064866308096?s=20
(I bought the book even though I'm not a Java developer just to support the author(s))
Hold you accountable... how? I asked if you agree or not with those actions. Or, like me, do you find them reprehensible? It's very relevant to FOSS project CoCs, which is what this post is mainly about.
>You talk about disliking tribalism,
Uh, I made reference to you signalling to your tribe, but you should not assume from that that I dislike tribalism.
>Do you not see how you’re behaving in a tribalistic way now?
Not really, but if I am, I'm not embarrassed by it.
Do you think the referenced actions of Coraline Ada Ehmke were proper in the context of an open source project? If you do, I won't "hold you accountable" for those actions, whatever that means. My purpose in bringing it into the discussion is to illustrate what these CoCs are really about. They're about defining which political opinions will be permitted to be expressed, and which ones will bring wrath down on the heads of those expressing them.
It's bad enough that the community is as divided as it is around these issues. Users need to respect the rules for HN to survive as a place for thoughtful discussion.
What I am well and truly fed up with is the implication that it is pernicious behavior on the part of white males that is responsible for this state of affairs. And that's not necessarily relevant to this particular SJW dustup, but in general it is what's implied, when it's not stated explicitly (as it often is).
Historically, it has been, yes. Even today, there are pockets of white males who are virulently against anyone but them having access to their little clubhouses (cf GG for one prime example.)
Not in the decades I have been observing this industry through my participation in it. In my observation, these past few decades the efforts to increase female and minority employment have far outweighed the rare instances of discrimination I've seen.
> Even today, there are pockets of white males who are virulently against anyone but them having access to their little clubhouses (cf GG for one prime example.)
If they're a "prime example", then why do I have no clue who you're talking about?
Also decades but I have observed plenty of discrimination.
> have far outweighed the rare instances of discrimination I've seen.
Might it be possible that you're not seeing the less explicit forms of discrimination? I know I certainly wasn't until people highlighted them.
The fact of the matter is there are more white males that pursue computer science than women, minorities, etc. That doesn't make all of us professional white males raging racists/sexists.
90% of nurses are women. Why don't these social justice warriors blow up the social web with that "injustice"?
http://www.nber.org/papers/w9873
I've also had a boss in tech that refused to hire women engineers. And another boss that lied to the state department to get someone here on asylum (who coincidentally was the hardest worker I've met) sent back, because "Mexicans should go back to where they came from". Spoiler, the guy wasn't even Mexican, just brown.