Medium tries to prevent people reading deleted articles on the Wayback Machine?
selectedintelligence.com
selectedintelligence.com
I'm slowly moving to offline-first versions of all the information I care about. Edit: This change too also lends to the 'slow web' (or just slow $whatever) movement, which I'm a fan of.
I went from buying all my music (physical and digital copies), and sometimes had to remove DRM from the digital copies, to stopping that and just using Spotify.
I'm slowly planning to stop paying for Spotify, but it would be very expensive to buy all the music I listen to. I think this will lead to at least 2 things (that used to be true, for me). 1) I'll listen to more local/new music that I can buy from BandCamp, etc. and 2) I'll have higher value to the music I do listen to, because I'm not as worried about glutting myself on a million new bands through Spotify. I'm okay with these 2 things.
parec | sox -t raw -r 44100 -Lb 16 -c 2 -e signed-integer - -t wav raw.wav
It still requires a lot of manual work, such as cutting the tracks, and making sure there are no "skips" (which somehow can happen). Skips could theoretically be removed using a consensus algorithm (using multiple recordings).I just wish someone would develop a fully automated workflow for converting playlists to audio files.
Interestingly enough, I had similar scripts about 15 years ago pre-Napster. The earliest mp3 sharing sites tended to push full-albums instead of breaking things up by track. I had a lot of fun using some of the earlier mp3 tools to break up and tag tracks. I still have a lot those mp3s on various HDs, and I know it because my splits weren't perfect for certain tracks that don't have 2 second gaps.
Yes, audio processing in the early days was fun, though it's easier now because of better tools and especially bigger harddrives and faster CPUs :)
I think the most interesting part is the lack of discussion.
What good is "better" if songs disappear every now and then?
Remember, 70 years * 10$ / month ~= 8,400$ for music over a lifetime. By comparison you can easily buy say every piece of music by Bob Marley and your done no need to ever do so again.
Sure, if you really care about music then a service is great.
1. Convenience (I never download or upload anything, and my playlists work and are automatically updated on the devices I care about)
2. Breadth of music (it doesn't have everything I want but it has a surprising amount of breadth in things I'd never care enough to amass deep collections in)
3. Easily accessible playlists from other people (I really appreciate the "This Is <band name>" playlists especially from Spotify)
4. Seeing what my friends are listening to all the time (I get a lot of new music this way)
Yeah, stuff goes away on the service. Yeah, certain less-popular genres are patchy and incompletely represented (and are we ever going to get Tool?). Yeah, the personal library limits are a bummer (although as someone who never uses this feature, I don't care myself). Yeah, the UI is terrible for certain things (classical music is especially bad, and I really hate that single-song repeat gets turned off in so many ways). Yeah, some of their clients are worse than others (why is the PS4 client's sound quality so bad and not changeable?) Yeah, there's no lossless versions of anything (I think).
And yet, for all that, Spotify has transformed my music listening, and I've been listening to a huge array of music for almost 25 years now. I listen to so many more new and interesting artists and songs on Spotify than I ever would have otherwise. I'll never go back, personally.
EDIT: Thanks for the answers folks, and yes, playing it out of order, or with interruptions would ruin its sonic beauty.
clarifying edit: This is for the paid version of Spotify. I've never used the free version but I believe that it plays ads in between songs.
It does require some mind-shifts on all sides, including those of content creators/providers, though. I don't know that I need to "own" any of my media in an everything-available-all-the-time world, but that requires, well, everything to be available all the time. If content availability comes and goes like the tide based on contracts and deals that I'm not a party to, it makes me a lot more skeptical of the implicit everything-everywhere promise.
I think that we're already there. This "cloud" generation seems to think that everything that exists (or at least is worthwhile) just sits on that magical Internet to be streamed to them whenever they want (and pay for it).
care to link it?
https://coyotetracks.org/for-sale/
And, a direct link to Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/Kismet-Watts-Martin-ebook/dp/B01MY02O...
I don't feel bad about doing this because I'm still paying for the books and I'm not distributing the backups I make. I'm not clear on whether personal backups are a legal exception or not, but I don't really care.
Streaming, clouds and DRM protection are fine for discovery, but if you love something, archive it. Storage is so cheap after all!
I feel changes like this are incrementally making the Web "theirs" and not "ours".
Separately, someone replied on here to me, a few months ago, that archive.org's policy for respecting -- or not -- robots.txt was in the process of changing.
I don't think that putting up a robots.txt policy should be able to retroactively remove from archive what was previously public. All the more so when the domain in question has changed hands.
But I expect this nonsense to continue. So, I only trust local copies.
Unfortunately, for me, killing the Scrapbook extension made them less convenient to collect.
I looked for alternatives, around the time Firefox stable transitioned. I recall that ScrapbookX was going to try to transition. There was language about writing to browser local storage, but that appeared to me to be too constrained for my use, as well as not yet being in place.
Since then, I've taken more cursory looks but not found a suitable extension. I recently learned about Wallabag, but it did not appear to have the same amount of facility; nonetheless, I want to set it up and give it a go.
I've been a little distracted, this winter. So, I've not problem solved like I should.
There is a serious push to criminalize memory. The GPDR is the latest attack. It's a huge problem for power centers that people can so effectively lookup the past themselves independent of what was deleted. Archive.org is a gold canary and they know it. They must partner with other people willing to accept copies, it's too easy and valuable to attack them otherwise.
btw (unrelated to video): https://github.com/bup/bup is awesome.
> There is a serious push to criminalize memory.
I hadn't thought about it that way, but it seems so true. And thanks for sharing bup!
article: http://archive.is/gPcBW
They are running Chrome/41.0, which was released in the beginning of 2015.
> It is very tricky to run, it depends on an exact version of Chrome, which binary also must be patched in order to reduce security (to allow saving content of frames, etc).
https://blog.archive.is/post/45984102073/can-the-archived-pa...
It strikes me as less likely that Medium is doing something intentional to prevent reading deleted articles, and more likely that the author of this post is making assumptions.
Besides, archive.org has a policy of respecting copyright. All you have to do is ask them to not re-publish, and they will. No need to engineer wacky redirects that don’t work anyway.
root@localhost:~# links -dump 'https://web.archive.org/web/20160826003417/https://medium.co... | nc seashells.io 1337
Results at https://pastebin.com/SMGBscz2
Produces a fairly nice, readable version also.
Actually most nuisances on the web today are JS-related so I have a button for quickly disabling it. It works like a charm, also for this case.
This is no different to burning books that the authors no longer support the views in.
I see this problem as an even bigger problem with kids. Kids put everything they do online, and they will probably be ashamed of a lot of these things later in life.
Comparing that to Facebook: I guess I shouldn't upload pictures on Facebook because it's against my right to want to see one of my old picture disappear later?
You are purposefully muddying the issue of access. If you upload your pictures on a password protected ftp server no one will know or care when you delete them. If you upload them on a publicly accessible website, despite what outdated laws on copyright say, you won't be able to withdraw them and that's a feature.
Facebook is a monstrosity that pretends to be a password protected server but leaks your data by design. Do not try to equate someone unpublishing a work after they wrote, uploaded and publicized it with someone removing a drunken status update that should have never been public in the first place.
Plenty of good. As a writer myself, sometimes just having these thoughts put out into form is a very gratifying process. When the inspiration hits you, nothing feels worse than not being able to express these thoughts and feelings in a way that feels appropriate.
Likewise, sometimes people write dumb things in a fit of passion. They write something that is a blemish on their otherwise fine history or that no longer reflects what they believe anymore.
While I'm on the side of the Internet Archive here, I can definitely appreciate that it's not an open and shut case. Sometimes the yearning for information to be free is at odds with our want for privacy. Tools like Medium, Twitter, Facebook, and other social media are like the gun in the house to someone suicidal (to use a very bad analogy) - an easy and convenient tool that allows for a very bad spur of the moment decision to be made.
I know I've done stupid things on games and on message boards in the past, and I'm only so lucky that this data likely isn't available anymore. Some of it was me being a dumb kid. Some of it was me just being an angry kid, but I am 100% grateful that this information is only remember by myself and a handful of others. A very different past me had a very stringent set of beliefs which I now have come to accept were very bad beliefs, and I did bad things in general as a result of them.
Is it really fair that I have the benefit that time forgot all these dumb things I've done simply because I was born before a time when Twitter/Facebook were common place? Before data permanence was really possible on a global scale? I'm open to the idea of some review on archiving data like this; I want the Internet Archive to be able to archive this stuff, but it would be really nice if there was a way to vault it for a reasonable period of time as well by request. Otherwise, you end up in a position where no one wants to write or produce or do anything in a fit of passion as a result of knowing that everything is permanently preserved.
I don't have an answer aside from "vaulting" the data, and I don't think that's a good answer. But I also don't think it's black and white like you're trying to make it.
Our culture definitely needs to evolve a little and become more forgiving of youthful ignorance. That's really the only long-term solution.
Perhaps this is also a good use case for services like Hermit[1], which allows limited sharing among friends and other writers. The notion of "trying out" an idea on a platform with enormous public reach seems foolish at best. Comics test their new material in hole-in-the-wall dive bars for a good reason!
Again, I really don't have an answer. I would err on the side of caution and say IA should continue to back stuff up and it's wrong to set up the time-bombs that also affect IA. But I do feel we need a way to accommodate some privacy still without silencing people outright for just plain dumb opinions and ideas.
Rather, invest in teaching kids how to safely publish under pseudonyms or anonymously if they wish to publish their angst-ridden teenage vampire poetry. You can always abandon your connection to that work that way — even if the work lives on for all the world to see.
> Comparing that to Facebook: […]
You should indeed never upload anything that you might wish to expunge at a later date. You have the right to see an old picture gone from Facebook, but you don't have the means to enforce removing it from your cousin's private backup on their own computer.
We should punish mistakes. Especially stupid mistakes.
A sentiment that is harder to sell if people erase all evidence of their mistakes.
The publicizing of things said by then Presidential candidate Donald Trump leading up to the 2016 election would incentivize people to not talk in private. Should we have banned any details about the incident from being spread if the one who said it didn't agree with knowledge of what was said spreading?
If being able to undo what you wrote so that it won't be held against you is a good thing, why wouldn't being able to undo what you said so that it won't be held against you also be a good thing?
If think that you will ever want real control over the pictures, then yes, you should avoid posting them to Facebook. I'd think that that's fairly obvious.
Putting someone else's work on a different website and serving it to others would be similar to printing copies of someone else's books. If the author changes his views, it wouldn't be acceptable for someone else to print new copies of the book. Making a copy of a website for your own personal use would be much closer. I don't think anyone disagrees that you should be able to do that.
When the author burns their own book and forbids new ones from being made is the only time that it's acceptable to print new copies.
Need I remind you of the purpose of copyright?
>To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries.
Do you mean acceptable from a legal point of view? Because I seriously doubt that it is.
The author's exclusive rights are only intended to be temporary. Once they're no longer secured, the work can be used by anyone for any purpose.
That depends entirely on the publishing contract's rights reversion stipulations. An author deciding that they do not want their book to continue being printed, purely because they have changed their views, will often find that they have very little legal right to do so.
Yes, definitely think before publishing, even if it's meant to be "private", say a self-destructing private message, because anything can be saved somehow.
On the other side, we change. Things that were relevant to me, things I genuinely thought to be true 16-18 years ago (I had a blog for a while now), I see a bit differently today, and I might like my current, tuned back views to be read, not the ancient ones from a disappointed teenager.
It's been deleted by its author and archive sites are the only places where I can find copies. I've saved a copy for myself just in case. If you use an article like this as a source, it'd be nice if there were a copy somewhere.
This is one of my favourite independent movies:
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1527628
I bought a DRM-free copy from the writer/director back when they offered it on their website. The main website is still there, but the whole purchase/download system is broken and those domain seem to have expired/been purchased by someone else. I almost lost my copy of this movie, but luckily I found it on one of my off-site backups.
People talk about how much content there is being created, but there's an incredibly amount of content that's being lost forever. Even if it's still out there, search monoculture (today we have Google/Bing/DDG where once we had Lycos, Hotbot, Altavisa, etc. etc.) can effectively keep content from being accessible. There might be something nice about the ephemeral nature of that content, but there's also something sad there as well.
To go back to your point, if someone publishes an article, it is nice to be able to see it again in the future. If they don't want it backed up, there are procedures like DMCA (if the author didn't publish the content to the public domain and the archiver is based in the US).
As a side note, we've already seen on here that the Right to be Forgotten is more about censorship than anything else.
Eventually we'll all go extinct, our sun will burn out, and everything that ever was and is will be lost. So preservation efforts really only go so far, and this brings up some more deep philosophical ideals about the ephemeral nature of what we produce more than anything else.
On the other points, I would believe this is related to the fact I personally (and I take most here) have spent way too much time on the internet on the past decade(s). I find it amusing the number of times I remember something I've seen or read in the past and how hard it can be to find it again. Or the number of broken links among old blog posts and articles.
Lastly, our lives are way too goddamn short. Thinking that far into the future is hardly productive in my opinion, even if you consider it can be very enlightening.
That's what AI wants you to think. ;)
I think there's an important point here about the difference between access and attribution. People talking about the right to be forgotten are generally opposed to attribution - someone like the top-level poster wants to be able to un-claim a blog post. But people talking about archiving are split between attribution and access - wanting to simply be able to see content, regardless of where it came from.
Two of my favorite bloggers have deleted large swathes of their work, both for reasons I think are inapplicable to me. In one case, they got a job in medicine and removed lots of content that might be unoffensive generally, but could upset a hospital HR department. In the other case, I believe she was worried about the impact her work might have on suicidal people.
In each case, the author wanted to stop having a comprehensive, owned body of their writing, while I simply wanted access to the text. I could give a damn if they accept ownership of that writing - it had interesting ideas and I simply want to be able to read it again.
This isn't a distinction I see made often; work is either in its source location or archived in an attributed way. But there are some cases where I'd be quite happy to get un-attributed access to the actual content someone created.
>To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries.
We, the people, trade our natural right of copying and selling anything we see for the benefit of increased dissemination of art and science.
Your integrity is kept perfectly pristine if your work only stays in your draw. The second you publish your work it is no longer yours.
Even worse is nyud.net, which essentially steals credit.
What sort of integrity is it, that can be adjusted by erasing your past actions, to hide the mistakes you've made and only present the successes?
The problem I see with once you've published something public - whether you've deleted it or not - is if and when they reference it (especially if it's older) in part or whole -- is if they reach out to ask you if since posting/writing something, if there are any comments or updates to it, so they then post that inclusion.
Perhaps your knowledge wasn't as evolved, therefore your understanding wasn't to conclusion - which is what the process of learning is all about. Perhaps you were going through a difficult time and you revealed things you're embarrassed about, and you have a fear of ridicule or other. That's where understanding and compassion then hopefully kicks in with the reader. If you can understand these processes yourself, and be able to forgive yourself and therefore others - or forgive others and therefore yourself - then great. If worry is strong and remains strong, then perhaps the solution is developing self-awareness to understand the nitty-gritty and nuances of emotion, to help understand the worry, where it comes from - and developing the tools and skills to help them settle.
Edit to add: You'd be surprised at what people deal with on a day-to-day basis or what they had to deal with in the past. Suffering, especially emotional suffering including discomfort and fear, is a strong teacher - it's something you have to develop to be open to - otherwise the ego mind will learn and want to logically control a situation, vs. managing it - which comes with developing self-awareness, therefore better self-control, and better self-regulation.
Where I'm at in my life, on my path, I currently fluctuate between having difficulty coping with chronic pain that I have to manage which affects my executive function and decision making, and between being very suicidal; most infuriating is that I have had success with healing some of the pain with stem cell injections, however for unreasonable/irrational decision that was made, I've been blocked from getting more from the doctor who first did them - and that has cascaded into making it challenging to find another doctor to continue them, I've come to the conclusion that our health-"care" system is very broken, and which I could go into the nuances of from my experiences, however I won't in this comment.
Yes, there will be assholes who will judge me for sharing that and think negatively for that, and they are people haven't developed those skills and understanding or compassion - at least not yet, or perhaps never, however we can forgive them for that - their genetics and life path, the environment they were born into wasn't up to them.
"We were always at war with East Asia" and all that.
This is an incredibly bold and huge presumption which absolutely does not mesh with the Berne Convention to begin with.
When you publish and sell a book, you no longer control who that book is later given or sold to. You retain only rights over the ability to make copies, and even then, you can't block people from making copies for personal use.
It's not yours anymore once it's public. It's like saying "when I do something crazy in public I want to be able to make everyone forget about it later on". That's not how things are supposed to work.
> I don't want anyone to be able to read it anymore
People can still have local copies so you have absolutely NO CONTROL.
Yes, but under current copyright laws they are not allowed to distribute them without your consent.
In practice, the nature of the web allows everyone to keep copies of everything if they want. But if someone republishes it, then you need to use the DMCA process (for American websites) to take that content down if it violates copyright.
Going back to print, what if you print something you don't want out there anymore? Well if people have already bought your book or magazine, they have bought a right to that physical copy. They can even sell the book or magazine to anyone else (granted that the content isn't illegal).
Interesting how the landscape and conversation has shifted. Sadly, it doesn't appear possible to even have a definition of publishing that both maintains the right of the public to access information, and allows for individual privacy.
Options like disabling crawling are insufficient, essentially web servers have to read author's minds to divine their intent in order to not screw up. Don't crawl certain kinds of content and you might be accused of discrimination, providing services to one group and not others.
Ownership is a weird thing.
It's not because they say it exists that it makes it valid in practice.
Says who?
On the internet, everything is as fresh as this morning, forever. No longer do we have "do you remember when so-and-so used to say that stupid stuff, boy have they changed!" Now it's "look, here's a link to so-and-so staying stupid stuff, now we know what they really think!"
The idea that once something is in the public it should remain there firmly embedded, forever, makes sense on the surface, but definitely seems to break down when examined closely, in my opinion.
If you have a blog you have to count with fact that an article will be on internet forever.
My advice is this - write an article today but publish it tomorrow (you'll have time for thinking about an article).
You are suggesting that the author of a flyer should be able to demand that everyone who took one burn it immediately, and have the force of law to ensure it happens.
That is not how copyright works. Copyright is intended to encourage the creation of new works, by granting for a limited time the exclusive right for an author to reproduce and copy their own works. Once those copies exist, and pass out of the author's possession, copyright does not grant any further control of them, other than to forbid those copies to be used to produce additional copies.
This, of course, raises the question of whether serving a digital document on an http archive server is violating the author's copyrights. A library may keep a copy of a pamphlet and allow patrons to view it without violating copyright. But web servers work by stamping out a perfect copy of the document and sending it out over the network. There is no physical embodiment of the document. If the archive were to display the document on a monitor, and then serve a video from a camera, pointed at that monitor, that would be analogous to viewing the physical copy of the pamphlet, but then that pointless fiction could be dispensed with by removing the monitor and camera and transmitting the digital rendering. So we have to fall back on the intent of the copyright act.
Clearly, the copyright act is intended to expand the amount of available works, by granting a temporarily profitable monopoly. Does the prevention of archiving further this purpose? Hell no. Archiving is essential for those works to eventually enter the public domain. When the original creator of a work has abandoned their attempt to monetize their efforts, to the point where they are now trying to destroy their work, it should escheat to the public domain immediately. If you didn't want it out there, the only remedy would have been to never publish it. You cannot erase prior publications by abusing copyrights. The law should not protect book-burners.
It's not legally different, but it's still different, which is something that I think people on both sides of this debate sometimes selectively forget. Before the web, those "street flyers" were pretty unlikely to go viral and be seen by millions of people. They were pretty unlikely to get, well, much farther than that street corner. And there certainly wasn't a widely-known and shared infrastructure dedicated to capturing copies of the flyer and preserving them indefinitely.
I don't know that there should be a "right to forget," but in the pre-digital era, things had limited circulation. They went out of print. You couldn't control what happened to copies after they were printed, no, but nobody could say, "You know what, I don't want this thing to go out of print, so I'm going to put it back into print whether the author likes it or not." To use your flyer example: I can't legally demand people who have my flyer burn it, but I can legally demand that people don't make copies of my flyer and hand it out on street corners of their choice for the next thirty years.
The closest thing the web has to the concept of "out of print" is, well, taking things offline. And a lot of things that go offline undoubtedly should be preserved. I use the Internet Archive all the time. But at the same time, I'm not convinced that the answer to someone saying, "Hey, this thing I put online 20 years ago and took down 10 years ago is something I'd really like to keep out of print" must always and forever be, "well, you should never put anything online that you'll ever reconsider at any point in your entire life, you fool."
Things went out of print because the unit cost of producing one extra copy was much higher than producing 10000 extra copies. As demand for copies tends to taper off over time, you eventually reach a point where you simply cannot produce just one extra copy at a cost lower than the price the next customer would be willing to pay for it.
No such pressure exists for digital reproduction. Every additional copy costs the same low, low amount. The author then has no reasonable argument for refusing to make an additional copy.
And yes, there was infrastructure for capturing and preserving copies of print flyers. It wasn't all-encompassing, and didn't catch everything, but there are many museums of ephemera now that have extensive collections of published material that was of limited circulation (and limited literary value). For those items that were expected to get thrown away or used as toilet paper, there was always the possibility that someone might have saved it, and it could still be around in some form 200 years later.
It is entirely reasonable for an author to demand that no one else make and distribute copies of their work. But in my opinion, if you can find the author, and make them a reasonable offer for a new copy of their copyrighted work, and they refuse to make one and sell it to you (or to license the right to make your own) then they have essentially abrogated their copyright. You would then be morally (but not legally) justified in copying that work from another source.
When something is published, the genie is out of the bottle. No law can stuff it back in. And copyright was intended to protect the livelihoods of creators, not to give them the ability to more easily destroy what they have wrought. Thus, whenever there is any confusion or ambiguity, I always personally interpret a copyright situation with the test "is there any way this might lessen the creator's ability to sell (or otherwise monetize) one more copy of this work?"
If the creator is no longer attempting to make money from a work, screw their copyrights. We granted them that limited monopoly to make enough money so that the effort of creation would be worthwhile to them. If they don't care to sell, I don't care to protect their ability to sell exclusively.
[1] http://www2.sims.berkeley.edu/research/conferences/aps/remov...
There's no scenario where they can respond to the vast scale of GDPR violations that their archive likely represents, when it comes to manually removing content. There are only three possibilities: avoid the EU as much as possible, dump the archives and start over with an entirely different approach, or shut down. Besides that, these laws are going to get a lot more strict and difficult to comply with, not less strict, over time. This is merely the beginning of aggressive regulation of the Internet. Regulation of the Internet will only move one direction from here, in the direction of increasing burden and ever greater regulation. It's hard to imagine Archive.org's archives surviving what's coming.
"GDPR violations". What's that, exactly? As far as I know, you only have to remove personal data upon request, no preemptively. So I don't see how they are "violations".
Will a lot of people make these requests? Possibly, but where's the evidence of that? People have been able to use copyright takedown requests (e.g. under the DMCA) forever, yet the Archive is still around.
[0]https://ico.org.uk/media/for-organisations/documents/1475/de... Pages 4-6
I'm not sure where this idea that nothing could be forced off the web before the GDPR came from.
Comments with usernames. Comments with ip addresses (sometimes old comment systems would allow you to comment without registering but they'd show all or part of your ip address). Comments with personal information in the messages. Comments with email addresses. Blog posts with all sorts of personal details from the author. Personal user account pages, such as the kind you see on sites like Ask.fm or similar, with vast amounts of user information and personal details that can't be deleted. And on it goes. Archive.org is storing all of that and does not allow it to be deleted. Further, it would be nearly impossible to figure out what content is compliant and what is not within the archives. It's a giant GDPR violation system. Their only sane bet is to stay way from the EU jurisdiction wise as much as possible, or shut down.
Read the law before posting wildly misleading comments like this.
If you explicitly make something public, you can’t later come and claim that this information is actually crucial to your privacy. If so, you yourself was the one who violated that privacy, not the company later archiving/caching/processing your public article.
GDPR is all about decency and common sense wrt. user data and privacy.
No need to spread FUD about something that simple. SV proved tech companies can’t be trusted to act ethically, so here comes the regulation. Deal.
Though now that I think of it, perhaps blocking [the archive.org crawler] could then become mandatory for GDPR compliance ...
The problem is that GDPR is a stupid legislation written by incompetent people that doesn't understand the subject and imposed with no possibility of choice on member states, like all the regulations from the EU (cookie banner law, for example).
And of course GDPR doesn't impact to much the companies that they aim to fight, like Facebook, Google, etc, they have teams of layers payed millions with the sole purpose to find ways to circumvent these regulations, they will just update the terms of services and done, the ones that will be more affected are small companies, startups, personal no project side projects, people that doesn't have money to spend in a layer for a project that doesn't make him any revenue.
I think that in Europe it's not more possible to do anything, if you have a good and innovative idea and you want to realize it, better take a flight to the US...
The cookie law is a problem because lazy web developers did not implement it right, probably you complain about don't spam me law because it adds a bit of extra work for adding the unsubscribe link and implement the requierements.
The laws are done for the good of the society and not for helping a minority to implement some move fast break things, pivot and try again.
If you look into it I think parent is most likely correct with his predictions since they are easily verifiable i.e. big coorps do have massive teams and monetary funds to deal with this legislation, startups and one-man shops do not. This is completely ignoring the deontological question of what should be the case, where I think most would be in agreement.
That applies to literally every piece of legislation. Yet we don't decide that small restaurants should be exempt from food hygiene laws, or that small construction teams should be exempt from health and safety laws.
Being careless with personal data has harmful consequences.
Being careless with food safety has harmful consequences.
This is why these things are related.
That’s not right, is it?
Didn’t that Nixon aide admit the drug war was a ruse?[1]
1. https://www.vice.com/en_au/article/xd7jkn/a-former-nixon-aid...
But I see a lot of anti EU sentiments here on HN, anything EU does is painted as anti american or anti startups when from inside EU we see it as for the people/society
No we don't. Some of us do and some of us do not. You are self-admittedly in the former group, I am not.
Also, just because something cost big companies money on one front does not mean it doesn't increase the monopolistic power of said companies and even increase revenues on another. Let me use your own example as a hypothesis we will be able to observationally falsify or not in the coming years. By eliminating roaming charges many smaller companies in the space will have to compensate for the loss of funds and will therefore either have to reduce their current plans, drop service offerings outside of the current country, or eventually collapse entirely. Regardless of the outcome, the total market competition has decreased and ultimately the mega corporations stand to win through decreased overall competition in the space. Additionally, due to lack of monetary incentives, I would expect the rate of innovation in large-scale roaming technology and infrastructure to decrease compared to countries which do not have such legislation.
Socio-economical systems are complex and nonlinear in nature, unfortunately, we i.e. humans have not evolved to think well about nonlinearities neither have we built ourselves sufficient tooling to augment our prediction capabilities for such systems. IMHO, this is the well-spring for the difference between intentions and outcomes in regulatory policy.
Your point is that we should not have made the security belt mandatory in cars because there could be a side effect somewhere like a person won't be able to evacuate in time, the idea is to calculate the benefits and the drawbacks and if benefits are much larger then we make the law and update it later.
I am sorry if a small telecom company can't adapt and compete without the roaming charges but we should not pay billions to the big companies so this small company also survives, we can make laws to help small companies like preventing abuses from big companies
If it's the same as the cookie law or spam rules, they'll come in and say "we've had a complaint, you're doing this wrong, fix it". Then if you don't fix it, they'll fine you.
Not only that, but many of the regulatory enforcers responsible for this in the EU are not particularly well funded and why would they spend the limited resources they have investigating one man bands?
In the USA it caused massive increase in organized crime and corruption - the effects of which are still with the US today
I know that laws get abused but do you see the OP asking to remove laws that are in his favor like copyright law or patents law?
No, because the legislators fundamentally misunderstood cookies. Almost any website needs to have some basic tracking of users for fraud detection, bot detection, and yes, basic analytics.
Instead of writing out a thoughtful approach, we get a mandatory nag screen right up there with "This product is known to cause cancer in the state of California" on anything sold ever. Users ignore them because the information isn't useful - infinite noise, no signal.
This is the opposite of the CAN SPAM law which did have thoughtful requirements - allowing exceptions for account related emails, requiring one-click unsubscribe but also giving systems a period to obey that to handle mail already in transit.
GDPR has so far been grossly in the cookie nag screen category, except instead of a tiny bar on visiting a page I get a multi-select based dialog of doom. The answer most companies are going to take is simply not market services to folks in the EU, and those that do will implement annoying nag screens.
More rules blindly applied rarely solves problems.
The only way to completely avoid the GDPR is to not hold personal data of EU citizens or EU residents.
(This is for foreign businesses. EU businesses have to apply it to everyone, regardless of their location or citizenship.)
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/gdpr-does-apply-eu-citizens-g...
But really, it's plain from the text.
Funny, because the GDPR explicitely says this is not the case.
Art2. Paragraph 2
This Regulation does not apply to the processing of personal data:
c) by a natural person in the course of a purely personal or household activity;1. Nobody in Europe will be blocking anything.
2. The Wayback machine will continue to operate.
3. GDPR is generally pretty well-written legislation, based on extensive experience by privacy regulators across Europe.
There are some questions about exactly how the rules will evolve in practice. The thing to bear in mind is that privacy regulators are interested in compliance, not in punishment.
Edit: I of course know that Russia is not in the EU, lol. Parent said "Europe" and I added Telegram as a fun remark after two serious examples (and there are more). Calm down with the downvotes.
The porn block in the UK (or opt-in block, more like) is a voluntary measure taken by ISP.
Not allowing information about people to be kept ad-infinitum (and sold ad-infinitum)?
Allow data breaches caused by sheer incompetence to go unchecked?
As much as I worry about its consequences, companies saw it coming.
Like the cookie nag, users are going to blindly click through until the confusing nag screen goes away and then be upset that it wasted their time.
The 'cookie law' is actually subtle genius.
If your site only uses cookies for operational reasons, such as enabling login or maintaining a basket, you don't need to inform the user.
So anytime you see a cookie-banner that indicates that the site is doing something additional with cookies. Like tracking for ad-networks. It's a yellow-flag.
Who exits next?
Why would the owner of the copyright make a complaint to the data protection authorities of the EU who might choose to do nothing when they could directly file a copyright infringement case? I suppose you could add insult to injury, but the data protection agency is likely to rule that the issue is one of copyright infringement.
It's the equivalent of it being technically illegal to take a photo of the Eiffel tower at night, because the light show is a copyrighted artistic display.
free speech is the right to speak about any topic without the gov't attempting to punish or censor you.
Free speech isn't the right to speak at any (private) forum, nor is it about having the right to be heard.
Yes, if a private forum chooses to not let you speak, you can't force them to accept you. But if they DO choose to let you speak, then you do have that right.
Also, this IS about the government attempting to censor people.
It is the Internet Archives freaking website, that they own!
There is plenty of nuance to copyright, such as public forums, public domain, fair use, etc. You have those defenses available to you. However, a person can bring a civil action against you anytime you make a copy of their protected work. The case may or may not be meritorious but already defending against a lawsuit is a penalty. Archival facilities are already exposed to this risk and they actively lobby for protecting their activities as fair use to varying degrees of success.
A person cannot bring civil action against you under the GDPR. They may make a complaint to the data protection authorities who may bring action against you if your use of the data is unlawful. Therefore, there is no way to force a person to have to even face a trial under GDPR. If your use of the data is unlawful, you certainly have no license, so you are not protected less under the GDPR than under copyright law. If your copy counts as fair use, then it will count as being lawful under Article 6.1 (e) and no action can occur under the GDPR.
They already take down pages on request and retro-actively apply robots.txt rules so that solves "right to be forgotten" or other circumstances where PII is present and shouldn't be.
They have sufficiently defensible reason to keep and present the archived information otherwise.
Their key problem will remain copyright and publishing rights arguments not matters of personal data, at least not more so than currently.
(caveat: while I have an understanding of the regulation due to it very much having an effect on our clients and to a lesser extent on us directly, I am not a lawyer by any definition so don't take my interpretation as gospel in any way)
The EU cannot enforce its law on entities that are entirely US based. It can only enforce it on non-EU sites if that site has some sort of business that’s within the EU (like offices or employees).
See also changes to "safe harbour".
We are merging with our creations, and will laugh at this "AI" thing when we realize it's us. The WOGPC is really a struggle for self.
When the first purely US based company is successfully fined or shut down by the EU I’ll believe in their ability to enforce GDPR.
Enforcement of national laws is very much a thing across borders, so private businesses outside the EU are right to be apprehensive about what is going to happen as GDPR enforcement ramps up.
[1] https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/04/france-seizes-fr...
According to [1] the law applies to:
1.) a company or entity which processes personal data as part of the activities of one of its branches established in the EU, regardless of where the data is processed; or
2.) a company established outside the EU offering goods/services (paid or for free) or monitoring the behaviour of individuals in the EU.
The internet archive doesn't offer goods or services in the EU (if you want to know how that's defined you have to read the actual law I'm afraid) and they're certainly not "monitoring the behaviour of individuals in the EU".
[1]: https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/law-topic/data-protection/refo...
It's the only country in the EU that does not require it's language in translations because even in Ireland nearly no one speaks it.
It’s about ensuring that companies only store and process privacy-sensitive information about people which they are given consent to store and only used for the purposes the consent was given.
There is nothing privacy related wrt the author in a public article published worldwide for everyone to read. Clearly outside the domain of GDPR.
It’s not hard people, just common sense. Just treating user-data with respect. Let’s not fool ourselves into thinking it’s harder than it actually is.
Just like H&S and the Data Protection act are abused today.
https://archive.org/about/faqs.php#14
https://www.fightcyberstalking.org/how-to-block-your-website...
[1]: https://blog.archive.org/2017/04/17/robots-txt-meant-for-sea...
Or via WBM for posterity: https://web.archive.org/web/20180430183503/https://medium.co...
It seems unlikely to me that they would deliberately go to this length to prevent archival, yet not attempt to prevent it happening to begin with. Furthermore, as mentioned in your link, they still accept removal requests via email.
As happened in this case: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16919017
No? The article you linked says they've stopped paying attention to robots.txt for US government and military sites, but it looks like it still retroactively removes visibility for everything else.
I guess IA could change their practices. If medium or people like them start actively using robots.txt to try to retroactively remove things from visibility in the archive, perhaps IA will change their practices/policy. I would welcome it.
https://web.archive.org/web/20160826003417/https://medium.co... ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Interviewing my mother, a mainframe COBOL programmer
My 1 year older brother (to the left), my mother and me (to the right)
My mother has been working for one of the largest banks in the EU since before I was born and I've always been fascinated by her line of work, especially these last years since I've become a programmer myself. I've been asked to interview her plenty of times, and finally decided to do so.
* * *One could read that as "Medium tries to protect their users content".
If I did read it wrong, I was able to load the second one fine as well
However you do seem to need javascript enabled to query the wayback machine from web.archive.org: "The Wayback Machine requires your browser to support JavaScript, please email info@archive.org if you have any questions about this. "
Less horrible than ‘Magic Trackpad 2 — Silvers’ I suppose.
Please use the article headline. However, the automatic redirect makes this pretty close to the truth.
Edit: have updated title
An author's track record for honesty and accuracy is (was?) the foundation of credibility.
Even if it were the case that one could only judge a person's honesty and accuracy from the "track record" of content published to the web that can be traced to their identity, this assumes that all such content is unbiased and factual, and that any interpretation of that content would also be unbiased and factual, but that isn't true.
Would you really want some sort of naively politicised rant that you wrote as a teen and no longer believe to affect your ability to get a job in your mid-thirties? Would that even be fair? Of course not. Yet that's absolutely realistic in a digital world that forgets nothing and where permanent and total erasure isn't an option.
(To be honest, age isn't particularly a factor here: over a period of a couple of decades anyone's beliefs can change quite substantially, and plenty do. Granted, plenty also don't, but entrenchment is a choice, even if one made passively).
Right up until you publish it in a public journal or newspaper, at which point you have no right to demand that every other reader destroy their copy.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine
[2] A TOS is not a contract. If you want to use a contract, make your offer, wait for someone to understand and accept it before you send them a copy of your article.
Has anyone tried your argument in a copyright case? Say, I access a NYT article, and according to your reasoning it becomes mine the moment their site show it to me. If it's mine I can publish and monetize it.
Yes, you can[1][2] monetize (resell) your copy. You do not have the right to make new copies. This ability is granted explicitly[3] in 17 U.S. Code § 109 (a):
>> [...] the owner of a particular copy or phonorecord lawfully made under this title, or any person authorized by such owner, is entitled, without the authority of the copyright owner, to sell or otherwise dispose of the possession of that copy or phonorecord. [...]
[1] In some situations there may be additional limitations of your rights. (e.g. performance of a copyright-protected work, which technically creates a new derivative work)
[2] I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice. Consult a real lawyer for actual legal advice.
If I post an article on mysite.org on "free trade" and you think you can archive it and copy and re-distribute it for eternity, you better think it again. The implied license is to read the article from my site, for as long as it is posted there--in MY site. Now, if I become a US President and someone has a copy from 45 years ago, that's different.
Did you read my post? I specifically said you couldn't.
>> You do not have the right to make new copies.
Copy rights are separate from your property rights related to your copy of a work.
> You are not a lawyer
Yes, although I have been studying copyright issues since the early 1990s. I'm not saying anything remotely controversial in current interpretations of copyright law.
Incidentally, a new interpretation that is slowly being accepted by courts is misuse of copyright[1]. Based on the older patent misuse, the idea is having a copyright only grants rights related to creating new copies of a work. Claiming that copyright somehow also grants you other totally unrelated right can result in the court preventing the copyright holder from enforcing their copyright[2]. Relying on misinformation about copyright can have serious consequences.
> too bad you try to act like one
You're seeing what you want to see. Providing references to what you're talking about is encouraged on HN.
[1] Lasercomb America, Inc. v. Reynolds
[2] https://apps.americanbar.org/litigation/litigationnews/pract...
Too much first person.
Also, Wayback Machine "is frequently used by journalists and citizens to review dead websites".
This isn't some fucking standard; it's Wayback Machine's responsibility to archive websites, not the other way around.