A group of techies is using data skills to alter Seattle's housing affordability
politico.com
politico.com
Check out this article. https://www.citylab.com/equity/2018/04/where-yimbys-can-win/...
The idea that the "tech industry" created this problem is just plain nonsense. Sure, the tech industry attracts young folks to creative urban centers and pays them a bit of money. But their parents (my generation) gave them birth and gave them expectations of prosperity.It's selfish to then blame them for wanting to live where the good jobs are.
This problem was created by restrictive zoning. And it will be solved by changing zoning laws.
And the restrictive zoning laws come from people who say, "Oh no, those people moving into new apartments will crowd our schools and our streets. We can't have that!" Whose schools are they? Whose streets are they?
The phrase "affordable housing" has come to mean "cheap housing for poor people." That's stupid. Affordable housing is good for everybody. The basic law of supply and demand teaches us that increasing the supply of housing will lower the price. To address homelessness, build homes.
Government (who exist to serve people) can start to approach this problem by partly assessing property based on nominal beds per square foot. Higher taxes on lower density housing will give an economic incentive to build more housing on existing land.
Powerful companies should unapologetically press politicians, hard, for changes to these NIMBY zoning rules.
Obviously, we need more housing, which needs to get built. And in the very long term, "increasing the supply of housing will lower the price". But in the short term, increasing the supply of housing will raise the price of housing. And regular people still have to buy housing every single day, regardless of the daily price.
YIMBYs have never had an answer for the short and medium term, and therefore like to ignore the short term and medium term, which causes them significant opposition from local communities at both ends of the spectrum. The wealthy people want to restrict zoning to inflate their wealth, but the poor/middle class people want careful applications of zoning, so as not to be displaced by the violent increase in 'market rate' for the next 5 to 20 years while we wait for the increased supply to lower the price. They can't just sit around for years while we all wait for the demand to fall -- they need housing to live in during that time, and have to pay for it at whatever the developer chooses to set 'market rate' as.
YIMBYs have developer money behind them, so they will win this fight. But they have no answer for the short/medium-term economic pollution they cause, so they are hurting a lot of poor/middle class people they claim to support, and will continue to do so with each victory they achieve over the next decade or two.
Tangentially, I’m a huge fan of how Germany (Berlin in particular) uses government regulations to keep housing affordable.
https://boingboing.net/2018/01/30/then-we-take-berlin-2.html
Not like it matters much anyway, politicians break their promised by ascending economic order to whom they were made.
Except for a few minor exceptions, America has nothing even remotely similar. The assumption is that owning your home/condo is the one and only way you are supposed to keep housing affordable in the US.
That assumption sort of / kind of worked for a while, back when there were heavy restrictions and regulations on how non-human and/or non-citizen entities could own and invest in housing, and when jobs/"demand" were somewhat-more-evenly distributed. But as soon as that was deregulated, the wheels came off the bus and it's been gotten steadily worse every year.
> Why do lower and middle class voters not vote for government regulation of housing?
They do, and in some respects, they already have this -- that's why they have some local control of zoning today. The regulatory control lower and middle class voters have is this local control of zoning that YIMBYs are trying to eliminate. Part of the problem is that "YIMBYs" are attacking that authority, by pretending anyone who is anti-YIMBY must be NIMBY. This is because it just so happens that the local control lower and middle class voters can use to promote public housing or "affordable" housing is the same control that wealthy voters can use to eliminate new housing entirely.
Real "local control" would let people commuting to Cupertino from Stockton decide zoning in Cuptertino.
That's a sham argument. That would be letting corporations who demand workers be on site decide zoning by way of commuters from other areas. Every local zoning/district must then bend to the will of temporary workers (temporary in the sense that their employment is less permanent than land ownership).
Local voters, through property ownership or residency is the only acceptable form of governance. Workers should be angered at employers who demand them to be on site, not zoning regulations.
http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2016/08/25/cops-living-in-r...
https://www.mv-voice.com/news/2018/03/08/school-district-con...
When your city cannot house the people required for its basic functioning, its government is broken.
I would not be against subsidized housing (both rentals and coops where you acquire ownership interest) that is means/income tested, to fend off speculators, foreign investors, and high income/net worth individuals from soaking up all the housing stock.
it's in not doing targeted upzones so small that only the wealthy can afford to move in.
it's in doing enormous upzones so large that it makes no sense to sell to only the wealthy.
Existing real property owners have a serious financial incentive to oppose policies that might decrease the value of their property by 25-40% (or more), especially when a plurality of their net worth is tied up in that property.
Restrictive zoning regulations have nothing to do with capitalism or free market economy.
"X-ray techs can't take X-rays without access to expensive X-ray machines in the hospital, owned by the hospital's shareholders. Cement masons can't lay the foundations for houses without access to expensive concrete mixing trucks. Those of us who don't have property we can make money from are forced to sell our ability to work to a capitalist--we become wage workers. "
Even when I was the most de-humanized corporate drone at the largest company I've ever worked for, all I did was type on a keyboard. And I can easily afford those means of production.
I liked that article, it had great info on the workings of the construction industry, but I can't say I understand what, if any, action it was suggesting as a better alternative to build shelter?
Presumably, if a developer knows they'll be able to do whatever they can that's allowed in the zoning regulations, then the property value should increase even more as a significant risk has been removed.
For homeowners, constraining housing supply and ballooning their property values in the immediate sense stalls the economy at multiple layers. Without housing companies cannot attract hires, no hires means limited growth, or companies stop moving to your city. in the US, since this housing epidemic is practically national in scale, it means businesses just stop trying to expand in US markets where its impossible for people to live.
It means people who could otherwise be productive are instead destitute, and in macrospect that trend produces rampant poverty and criminal enterprise to compensate for the lack of legitimate business opportunity.
For every home owner individually the idea of deflating their ludicrous property values sounds bad until they can come to terms with the fact that their collective behavior contributes to diminished or absent growth both locally and nationally. You cannot grow industry on inflated single family home prices in major cities but you can wreck an economy and the lives of millions.
Rush hour is from people traveling to jobs, not from everyday living. So if you want less traffic, get rid of the jobs in the area, or provide ways for people to commute other than by car.
In fact, putting housing closer to jobs is probably the best thing that could be done to reduce traffic. At least then people have a chance to live close to where they work, and are on the road for fewer miles.
As it is, people live further out, travel further, and create more traffic than they would if there was more dense housing close to jobs.
If NIMBYville stops being awful and recognizes how high the land values are they dezone the city limits to enable substantially higher density. And then, a decade later after the demand bubble has been drained, you might finally have the workers living in the actual city they work in, commuting by train, bike, tram, walking, etc instead of with cars that, unless you go out of your way to subsidize, will be prohibitively expensive to own when the square footage land value is so high.
And everyone wins in that world. If you previously owned an upzoned house developers will buy your house for more than they would if it were just zoned for a single family dwelling because they can put a dozen+ apartments on it. Letting density happen would mean you can actually choose between a small inner city condo or apartment that dosen't cost a magnitude more than a several thousand square foot house fifty miles away because when housing demand happens in the city housing can actually be built to meet it.
It is all wrapped up in short sighted greed on the part of everyone involved. Nothing gets better because nobody wants to wait for the best outcome if they can make marginal victories by sacrificing the well being of the whole and even their own long term prospects in the immediate term.
You'll find them on discussion boards enthusiastically supporting development and/or sanctioned homeless camps in other neighborhoods because they "have better transit" or "closer access to services" than their own neighborhood.
It's important to remember that NIMBYs aren't actually protecting their back yard, they're restricting what others are doing in their fully-owned backyard. So if you're going to complain about YIYBYs, then the category of NIMBY doesn't really exist, it's just NIYBY.
> enthusiastically supporting development and/or sanctioned homeless camps
These things seem quite different from each other.
And zoning should be a city wide discussion. If a city doesn't zone for density near to heavy transit, the city is zoning irresponsibly and should no longer have local control, and the State should take over zoning.
Two things that are often considered "undesirable" by the people living near them.
That's why there's room for skepticism when self-described YIMBYs actively root for other neighborhoods to take on these and other "undesirable" projects. In addition to demonstrating their public display of enlightened urbanism, it also happens to be in their interest to keep these projects out of their own neighborhood.
It's sad, for example, to see so much discussion of the Mission in San Francisco (which is already quite dense, by any standard short of "midtown manhattan"), when the western 3/4ths of SF (much of which consists of wealthier people in suburban-style mansions) is routinely ignored. And though I believe that YIMBY people do want to raise height limits and density everywhere (good, fine), in practice, the debates usually center on re-development in poorer neighborhoods, since it's an easier political lift.
Not so dense by the standard of Brooklyn, either. Brooklyn is 1.5x denser than Mission.
And that is the average density for all of Brooklyn, Brooklyn being 40x larger than the Mission District.
Citation absolutely needed. Show me source of your numbers. Brooklyn runs the gamut from skyscrapers to single-family houses, but the average construction is 1-3 story apartment buildings, just like the mission.
In any case, even if you're right, it's not a counterargument: how does the western 3/4ths of SF compare to Brooklyn? Why should we be focusing on the Mission, and not, say, Sea Cliff?
Let's try to put a condo building to Jack Dorsey's mansion and see what happens.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooklyn
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mission_District,_San_Francisc...
> Why should we be focusing on the Mission, and not, say, Sea Cliff?
Why not both?
http://www.city-data.com/neighborhood/Mission-District-San-F...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barcelona#Population_density
Not manhattan.
Like look at this random spot in barcelona: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.3974472,2.1586211,3a,60y,125...
More specifically, it's come to mean "subsidized housing for poor people". It's often contrasted with "luxury housing", which is implicitly anything new-built and market-rate.
From a policy perspective, "affordable housing" refers to programs which through some incentive or another, get developers to rent some units at below market rates to people at certain income thresholds. They usually go away (for a specific building) after 10-15 years.
This is confusing, because sometimes it really is cheap housing for poor people and other times it's nice, very expensive but below market rate housing for middle class people.
The other problem, as mentioned in the OP, is that as you start trying to shift cost for more units you end up with higher overall prices. Thus making the market rate higher, and making it harder to get developers to make the same concessions they did before for future development.
"If the distribution of wealth is incredibly skewed, how exactly could the distribution of home ownership not be similarly skewed?"
YIMBY seems reasonable as response to homeowners leveraging zoning to distort building priorities and so protect their home values. But if one millionaire will pay (rent or mortage) more for a mansion on a hill than all the potential poor occupants of entire apartment building on that hill could pay, then the developers will build just that mansion, even freed from NIMBY constraints. And that's not even taking into account way that the most developers are going to have an incentive to keep rents overall high and so have an incentive keep the housing markets tight.
State housing projects and zoning that actually incentivizes affordable density indeed could help that. But here, not only have housing project not been build but a lot of these projects have been torn down (leveraged by poor-people horror-stories of course).
Anyway, I would answer my question above as "the way we've have decent housing for working class and poor people has generally involved the rich and powerful being far-thinking and seeing improving everyone's conditions improves their position overall." But a variety of factors have thrown out all the far-thinkingness of the powerful today, as is evident in any number of fronts.
If so, then yes, but how many millionaires are there trying to grab up huge tracts of urban land for their own personal residences?
And that's not even taking into account way that the most developers are going to have an incentive to keep rents overall high and so have an incentive keep the housing markets tight.
They have that incentive collectively, but when rents are high, an individual developer's incentive is to build more apartments to rent out. Sure, building them might reduce the per-unit rent, but that developer collects more rent in total.
I like to call it what it really is: "lottery housing." It is only affordable to the lucky few who win the jackpot.
Oh, you want Section 8? Well, fill out these 20 forms, be in the right office at the right date and time, and you'll be entered into a lottery IF the paperwork you filled out matches our unstated criteria and allotted apartments.
Oh, and if you don't get in this YEAR, there's a nice city park. And the cops only harass you every other night.
Politicians can pretend to be working on improving housing prices, while in reality doing nothing of the sort. As far as I can tell, "affordable housing" requirements produce only false hope for lower-income residents and increased market rates.
I know where I'm from, we have an influx of foreign students, paying out-of-country education costs. I have no issue with people from wherever coming here to study. It's cool, since it brings in a lot of ethnic stuff, as we all benefit.
The downside is actually that, alongside city government allowing "luxury highrises" for the students. We're in the middle of Indiana, and these rooms are going for $1400/mo.
It's a combination of many different things; Indiana University owns a great deal of land and pay taxes on pretty much nothing, the city council refuses to say no to the luxury condo makers, the council refuses to allow low cost apartments or assist funding them, the state refuses to let bloomington to annex more land. And of course, NIMBYs are in many neighborhoods, but this is only one facet.
What's "affordable housing"? The common refrain is 'The Market will tell us'. Well, the market also says "if you can't find a good job, you're gonna live in the city park".. So I don't put much trust in that market religion. Takes people in decision making roles to solve this one - Government.
But, to do that, we also need to work with developers to help reduce the underlying cost of housing. It's not just the cost of land, but also the actual cost of building it too. Once the actual cost of housing goes down, they'll be able to build much much more and they'll be able to profit even when the price decreases significantly which keeps them building more and more, as long as there's enough competition.
Interesting how that lines up so nicely with this headline/factoid:
For every 100 families living in poverty on the West Coast, there are no more than 30 affordable homes
https://www.geekwire.com/2018/every-100-families-living-pove...
Also, no doubt purely coincidentally:
(The Seattle area, the nation’s 22nd largest by population, has the third most homeless people, behind only Los Angeles and New York City.)
I sarcastically say purely coincidentally because of how often I get told that (a large portion of) homeless people are drug addicts, mentally ill etc, so lack of affordable housing is not why people are out on the street.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness_and_mental_heal...
https://www.va.gov/homeless/nchav/research/population-based-...
In a nutshell, there are housed people who drink heavily or have mental health issues. Simply having a substance abuse problem or a mental health issue does not per se cause homelessness.
Homelessness occurs when an individual has too many problems and too few resources or options. The difference between a homeless person and a housed person can be one more problem or one less resource.
There is a longstanding and dire shortage of affordable housing in the US. Dismissing that as a contributing root cause of the homeless problem in this country sounds like crazy talk to me. It sounds to me like someone really reaching to wash their hands of the problem and chalk it up to personal failure rather than acknowledging the systemic issues that are causing enormous stress for a great many Americans of all kinds of income levels and demographics.
Saying that mental illness and substance abuse are the cause of homelessness, so much so that we can totally ignore the issue of housing affordability whole cloth and dismiss it entirely as not pertinent to the subject of homelessness looks ludicrous on the face of it to me. But I keep hearing it over and over and over. The best guess I have is that it is a narrative that serves a desire to wash one's hands of the problem and pretend that well known systemic issues are not relevant as homeless people are "just a few losers with unsolvable personal problems and they would be homeless even if our country didn't have a dire shortage of affordable housing."
That isn't to say that this is an excuse for America's lacking response to the homelessness crisis. But, to say the scale of Seattle's homeless population isn't an indictment of America's substance abuse policy and the state of its (mental) healthcare system, just as it's an indictment of dysfunctional urban bureaucracy and housing policies strikes me as a disingenuous assignment of blame.
I'm aware there are many factors that contribute to homelessness and nowhere have I said that personal problems aren't a factor. But I fail to comprehend why there is such strong push back against the idea that lack of affordable housing is a factor at all, why every time this cones up, multiple people feel some need to say "Nuh uh, homeless people are just crazies and addicts and the cost of housing has no bearing" in essence, granted in slightly more PC language.
I agree with you that there is a housing cost gradient which will cause people with moderate addiction or mental health issues to become homeless.
It's hard to keep any housing if you can't keep a job and your entitlements don't cover everything.
Source: Matthew Desmond.
https://www.npr.org/2018/04/12/601783346/first-ever-eviction...
Researching just now, there's some questiion on that statistic, though the point remains that there are a tremendous number of minor children affected by homelessness, unlikely to fall under the scope of either addiction or mental illness as fiter was addressing, above.
Not that either gives cause to kick anyone to the curb.
https://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/06/25/to-be-young-li...
The next question is whether their parents have any troubles...
What of those whose "respect" failures aresuch that they cannot gain or hold a job? Discrimination, disability, drugs testing, convictions or arrest screens, etc.?
The sytem you describe kicks them to the curb as well.
All of this also studiously ignores the fact that housing has been underbuilt for decades ineconomically vital areas.
I was going to bring this up as an anecdote but looking at this (http://www.businessinsider.com/federal-government-land-map-o...) it seems to be true; a relative of mine lives in a small city in Utah and says he wants a couple acres but the land surrounding the city is federally owned, limiting his options. How was this land released to citizens previously and how has that changed since? Was it really just doling it out to farmers who have since sold it?
Yes. For much of America's history, you could literally get in a wagon, head out west somewhere, plant a flag, and the land was yours. This was true all the way to 1976.
"In all, more than 270 million acres of public land, or nearly 10% of the total area of the U.S., was given away free to 1.6 million homesteaders; most of the homesteads were west of the Mississippi River."
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homestead_Acts
But that's not the whole story. Another 10% of the entire US land mass (~200,000,000 acres) was granted free of charge to various railroad companies[0], many of which are still the largest private landowners in their respective states.
You also had to band together with your fellow settlers into armed militias to kill the people whose land you were squatting.
Those are the same militias which are protected in the second amendment. Their original purpose was "killing indians". The secondary purpose was to catch escaped slaves.
It's always fun to remember where our real estate industry comes from. It's also interesting to see the hidden connections between America's passion for home ownership, its obsession with guns, and its racism.
False. The original purpose, predating even the government and the constitution, was to fight off armed oppression in the form of Hessian mercenaries and British soldiers.
It's also interesting to see the hidden connections between America's passion for home ownership, its obsession with guns, and its racism.
Gun Control was partly started by racist southern politicians who were horrified by the thought that black citizens would have the right to own firearms.
https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2017/10/gun-contr...
You do realize that colonial militias existed for over a century before the war for independence with the British Empire? What "armed oppression" were they fighting exactly?
The Comanche are but one example. There are very few groups in history that ended up where they were peacefully. That's unfortunate, but depicting the European settlers as land-hungry thieving murderers should take into account that's what everyone did.
Here's an account of the Fort Parker massacre, which wasn't uncommon on the frontier:
Benjamin Parker was killed, and before the fort's gates could be closed, the raiders rushed inside. Silas Parker, who was outside with his brother, was killed before he was able to get back inside the gate. Samuel Frost and his son Robert were killed inside the gate, as they attempted to flee. John Parker's genitals were cut off and he was then scalped. His wife came out of the woods when she saw his torture and was captured.[5] Lucy Parker and her youngest two children were initially captured but were rescued by Luther Plummer as he ran up to the fort from the fields. Her two oldest children, however, along with Luther's wife (Rachel) and son, and Elizabeth Kellogg were successfully kidnapped.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Parker_massacre
Did those settlers deserve that? You can argue it, but this is a complex topic. Maybe some of those militias existed for good reasons, like if they didn't, people would get murdered by raiding parties, as they have in every locale in history.
Other poster: no, they were started well before that
You: Have you HEARD how savage those Indians were though??!?!
Besides the fact that the colonial militias had military use because Britain wasn't the only imperial power in the region. Washington, for example, led a Virginia militia against the French way before the Revolutionary War.
Is that really that off topic?
Militias had offensive/defensive use against other colonial powers, but they also could have (but didn't always have) purely defensive use against native raids, which were not uncommon (nor were they the other way around).
You've also decided that that all land was "indigenous" when nobody has ever owned land, it's always been what group takes it. The natives often took the land from each other. You've decided that's different from European settlers doing it purely based on race. You're making a racial distinction without admitting this is just what people do. The plains weren't Apache land in 1500, why was it their land 200 years later after they'd kicked out other natives? Why was Mexico City Aztec land when they killed off the groups which originally owned it? Much land was loosely populated anyway, both groups could have coexisted but they did not. Killing "squatters" is just justifying the same militarism you despise.
Do you see what I'm trying to say? I don't deny atrocities against the natives, those are well-documented, but if you're you're going to talk about history, talk about how it was, not about how a 21st century view of race/society sees it. It's dishonest to those people and who they were.
What do you mean by "one-sided"? What are the "sides" involved here?
> You've already decided that the purpose of militias was to "kill Indians". You didn't back that up at all.
Why would I have to back it up? It's a very basic fact which nobody is disputing, not even you. You feel that the killing of natives by militias was justified at least in part in self-defense, you have inferred from my choice of words that I disagree with you, and you're unhappy about that.
But you haven't proposed an alternative explanation to whom the militias were meant to kill (if not native americans, who? Other settlers? Bears?) or why (if not because the settlers were squatting on indigenous land, then why? Family feud? Religion? The color of their hats?) If you do have an alternative explanation for the existence of militias, now would be a good time to make your case.
Remember that you are the one who framed the discussion into the 2nd amendment context in the first place. The reason why the 2nd amendment is there is primarily to properly adjust the balance of power between the governed and the government, as is the rest of the Bill of Rights.
That's probably true. Also very abstract, and not in contradiction with anything I said. What's the point you're trying to make exactly?
Then again guns were needed to catch escaped slaves and to keep control over large black population ... and south pre-civil war had manly man dueling culture ... it was complicated and very situational when guns were good and when they were bad.
The land wasn't just "granted free" to the railroads.
Still happens now and again, though.
The problem is that the regulatory pollution (crappy zoning) is so bad in certain areas and improves so little as you get further out that building a little further away isn't actually a better value.
It was doled out via the Homestead Act. Anybody could take the land and farm it. And what land did they take? Land that they thought they could grow enough on to not starve. What land was that? Land with water.
The land that didn't get taken was land that had no water - not enough to run a farm. And it probably still doesn't have enough water for a subdivision, at least not one with lawns.
Since then, prices have doubled at least twice. I could never afford to move back to my old neighborhood.
Here's the thing: Wallingford will be valuable and therefore expensive no matter what kind of housing you build here. Literally anything. There are some crappy midcentury studio apartments that go for 2k a month not 10 blocks from here, because the location is great even if you don't have a house.
That means that basically everybody who doesn't develop property professionally is misdiagnosing the situation.
The NIMBYs say that rezoning will cause property values to crash. That's just not in line with available evidence from Ballard and similar, and flies in the face of reason besides. When your lot can be a beloved home to another family or a pile of income to a developer, math says the developer will eventually win the bidding war.
Most of the YIMBYs are wrong because housing prices just aren't going to come down that much here, and much of what comes in will be rentals. Those rentals will be luxury units because they can be, and will therefore be 2500+ a month. That's within a few hundred dollars of an existing mortgage (on one of the cheaper houses-- not the million dollar 3000+ sqft thing down the road) but without the potential upside.
From a developer's perspective, building a brand new apartment building is ludicrously expensive, you simply MUST charge very high rent, or your whole project is not feasible.
Consider: if the amount of housing available within Seattle city limits was multiplied by 10 tomorrow, would prices go down?
edit: wait, you're not even the poster I responded to. What the hell?
In my view, any successful policy is going to have to be both incremental and carefully balanced to take everyone along for the ride. That will piss off lots of people who think the other side is trying to destroy or deny them the things they love, but it's pretty much the only way forward.
So what you'll be left with is even more wealthy folks coming in, and never anything affordable for the blue collar folks.
Of course in the short term, wherever you lift the crippling shroud of insane zoning policy, new housing will still be very expensive. It is pent up demand. But by building density you exhaust said demand. And on top of that, the denser and larger you build, the most scale you apply, the cheaper it gets per unit to house people. Economies of scale plus a bunch of other scaling effects on construction.
One thing the first bastions of reasonable zoning policy will probably fail to do, though, is remove some fairly insane mandatory minimum square footage requirements, which puts a kink in any reasonable approach to housing - developers need profit, and the smaller you can make units the larger your market can be because you can fit more people into the same building footprint and thus afford to charge less per unit, and thus enabling poorer people to live there.
Without that you do just end up with the luxury 2000 sqft condos that are only better than the status quo because they reduce pollution and traffic. They also dramatically help the local economy by enabling high income earners to live there in greater numbers. But to actually help the poor, you need to unrestrict not just the outside building size but the inside as well.
As it is now, if you build more housing, more wealthy people will move in to fill that housing, and more and more, and on and on until you hit a plateau. That plateau will never be affordable for a blue collar worker unfortunately.
My point is that building more houses is not the answer all by itself. Drastic changes to our understanding of property rights and landlording are required as well.
[0] https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/data/seattle-once-...
If the concern is that it takes roughly $60k/household just to live in Seattle, the answer is higher wages. Even if that acts as a drag on King county GDP, the King county housing market is north of 100% of GDP; better to endanger the smaller value. And personally, I don't think higher minimum wages will be a net negative in the long run-- but I could be wrong. If I was, we could fix it later though.
If you're trying to solve the problem of not being able to rent a place you like independent of not being able to afford a baseline place, the only answers are market distortions in your favor. The proposals I've heard for that are sort of a "fair, cheap, effective-- pick two" deal.
Personally I think the best approach is more and better transit, since that raises the utility (and therefore underlying value independent of market value) of homes both close and far from the urban core. But it is definitely on the fair, effective, not cheap side of that triangle.
There are six 2-bedroom units, and each unit will probably sell for 500k. There is no parking since the building fills up the entire lot.
You know who lived in the bungalow before? a low-income family. Do you think this new condo building helped them have affordable housing? NOPE!
All this development does is push people who were already here out, and allow a flood of rich folks to move in. It does nothing for affordability.
On its own, the new building probably has not moved housing prices enough to help them more than that $450k they just sold for.
Now I imagine they are likely leaving the city altogether since it will no longer be affordable to live there.
- Suburb: Just roads are fine.
- Midpoint: Give a lane and make it dedicated for BRT. That's the only way people will take the bus seriously. When they see that bus zoom by while they are stuck in traffic, many will take the bus.
- City: Build rail and subway.
But high density development keeps happening without any of this. This just makes the NIMBY arguments stronger.
EDIT: Just thought of another possible solution for Midpoint: shutdown the bus system and use the funds to give everyone $X per month for Uber Pool/Lyft Line. Make using Pool/Line a requirement for using the money, since those provide the most benefit for increasing road capacity. Bus reputation is so bad in the US, something like this might be the only way.
I’m not saying it’s utopia, but the idea that the roads can’t take any more people is, in most places, baloney.
You're absolutely correct. This must happen.
Realistically, it happens when the residents of a newly dense neighborhood push for it to happen. It's rarely politically workable to build transit first.
But for government owned transit, it's not possible to speculate or prospect transit lines, so it has to come after density is developed first.
It's probably something to do with the black and white view of free-market vs government regulation we have in the US. Everyone's gunning for all one or the other.
However, all the power is at the city level, so that's why the situation doesn't change. California recently tried to introduce a bill to use state level power to force density, but it was voted down and defeated.
I have mixed feelings about all this. I don't like the idea of a higher power like the state or federal forcing everywhere to be dense. Residents should have some control over how their neighborhoods develop. But the current housing shortage is really bad. Long term, it will destroy the economy because people will move away to other states when they start families, and that's often also when their careers reach their prime (maximum tax revenue).
That said, also like you, I'm pretty damn worried about the crisis at hand. Given that the crisis has been pretty uniformly driven by local government policies, they're going to have to be dialed back to fix much of anything.
I've worked to develop urban planning guidelines in my previous job, and in my experience environmental regulations like shading studies are heavily, heavily relied on as a quantitative way to post-rationalize NIMBY-ism's desire to stop construction. Why? Simply because there aren't a lot of other quantitative metrics to justify low-density development, and so the only real data-backed analysis that justifies building shorter buildings tends to be solar rights.
My current job is as a building energy researcher, and as I've gone about my job - which involves a lot of programming & calculating metrics for building energy (obviously), indoor/outdoor human comfort, daylighting thresholds - it's obvious that the urban argument that is made is a one-sided one that could be potentially undermined by demonstrating metrics that favor <i>less</i> solar access. Or, since the sun moves around the sky - metrics that give you equal solar access at different times, which can allow higher density. i.e what is the urban heat island consequence of exposed urban surfaces to sun, what is the comfort benefit of shade, the harm caused by direct UV, what is the building energy benefit of blocking direct solar gain etc.
This is not meant to (reductively) claim that less sun is a good thing - simply that there is more ambiguity then is captured by current zoning regulations or design standards, and as a result we are over-emphasizing solar access when in certain places it isn't benefiting us. At the very least, we shouldn't take the solar-access argument at face-value.
And I don't the planning officials and design professionals who are implementing this for the current state of environmental regulations. In my experience, given the impact their work has on the city, it's astonishing how little resources are expended to actually quantitatively study the effect of different typologies on the city, and as a result they tend to rely on community (NIMBY) feedback, and existing precedent for structuring cities. Better data-based tools could help them a lot make a progressive argument for higher-density.
People have got to save for retirement somehow. Company final salary pensions are a thing of the past. Investments in shares can go down as well as up. The government can’t or won’t help. What do you expect people to do? Sacrifice their own wellbeing for your unearned benefit?
So instead, homeowners vote for policies that make sure that they somehow get an asset that is guaranteed to go up. That's an unearned benefit, it's one that comes at our expense, and it's an expense that they sure as hell didn't have to deal with when they were getting established in the world.
No. Those people built the communities you find so desirable to live in, sometimes from scratch, sometimes by regenerating a dilapidated area. The value you crave would not even exist if not for them. And now that the hard work is done, you expect to waltz in and have it for the taking?
Millennials think they are the first generation ever to live through hard times. While raking in fortunes their parents and grandparents could only dream of, working for tech unicorns.
I thought the value was due to all of the high paid tech workers coming in with high salaries and driving up housing prices?
Everyone else wants to think of Millennials as the first generation that is uniquely self-absorbed or whiney.
Good luck with your desirable community as it closes itself to everyone, grows old and turns into an old-age home /s.
Just stop this characterization of all Millenials, will you? Young people are the future and they are contributing into the welfare programs that go into supporting old farts. Old farts who neglected the infrastructure, squandered billions in foreign wars and much more in toxic financial instruments and just elected the most unqualified idiot as the most powerful person in the world.
See how that kind of generalization works?
Oakland? San Francisco? Santa Monica? Los Angeles? Well before Boomers.
The small cities that are trying to bring in businesses without building any housing? Palo Alto? Menlo Park? Berkeley?
All of these places were within 25% of their current size by 1960. Boomers didn't build any of these communities from scratch; they may have grown up in them, but they're not special unique forebears that made everything around us.
The 0.1% sure know how to get the 99% to viciously attack one other over the scraps that fall from their table.
Most assets have been going up in value. It's because of wealth inequality reaching staggering levels. It isn't because of homeowner voting patterns and it isn't the fault of homeowners. They just didn't do as badly out of this problem as non-homeowners.
If you don't want me to live next door, buy the land. As it stands now you can forbid me from living on land you don't own.
Look at the Japanese housing market for an extreme example of what can happen. After an insane housing run-up it's been a flat or depreciating asset for decades.
There are no safe single classes of asset. If you put all your money in a house you're not diversifying.
But that is contrary to the Millenial narrative that every previous generation had it easy! And that they are uniquely in the entire history of the world hard-done-by.
People are upset that they can’t move into an already-gentrified neighbourhood at pre-gentrification prices
This is true. But using housing for this is the worst possible way to achieve this.
If Americans want guaranteed retirement security, the government should build them a guaranteed retirement security.
Breaking all housing everywhere, all the time always, is not a sustainable or feasible way to fund retirements.
In the UK its the exact opposite - the government actively plundered the private pension funds. People want something tangible.
that would properly align incentives. now it's just sitting on land and watching the dollars flow in - the definition of unearned wealth.
"a good investment" - grows faster than inflation.
"affordable" - doesn't grow faster than inflation.
(Most) people don't pour money into houses because they consider it an investment, they consider it an investment because they've poured money into it. The fact that real estate is scarce combined with the fact that people need a place to live causes homes to be people's largest financial asset.
To protect some peoples most larges financial asset, at the expense of everyone else.
I think as an owner the incentives are pretty clear. It is also cleary why the city indulges them: city officials live in the city and are owners, and local propositions will always have more participation of owners (concentrated interests) than renters and visitors (who might not be able to vote, dont have residency, nationality, commitment, etc).
Seattle and SF are cruising on the back of tech, they are not producing benefit with their regulations. This is not up for economic debate: official econoimsts of the city of SF and the state of California have made their case already. This can only turn economical if another city provides a better incentive than these and competes away at the taxation level.
The cities live on their incumbency, but they will pay a price in homelessness until another city starts taking away their business.
Of course it's rational to push against decreased supply of an asset when you're buying one; but that's not a sufficient argument for making that desire government policy. I'm sure that it's nice to have convinced the state from preventing other people from building dense/tall housing on their own property, since it makes your asset more valuable than it'd otherwise be, but the effects of that policy on non-homeowners are absolutely horrendous.
The consequences of limited housing supply/density in US cities have been pretty nasty, between shitty dysfunctional transit systems, pathologically high rents (a complete apartment is cheaper in Tokyo than the cheapest form of housing in this city, namely a room in someone else's house), and a ghastly homelessness crisis.
Your overinvestment into certain asset classes doesn't mean the rest of us should suffer the consequences of artificially limited supply in that asset. Other countries manage to have better cities (with cheaper rents!) than US without NIMBY-enabling zoning laws, so it's not like this sort of land-use law is inherently necessary.
Here in CA we're in a 50 year macro bubble since the 60s where housing has increased above inflation and even above salaries, but once your paying 60% of your salary to housing, it's harder and harder for it go any higher.
And if society is actually progressing, it would be a bit less than 0%. Anything greater than 0% return is a bubble/ not sustainable increase - though there's nothing that says the bubble has to ever pop, but there are limits to how much it can go up.
Why not just ... move?
If all the people are already on the West Coast what incentive is there to encourage relocation away from the West Coast as opposed to the continual brain drain from the rest of the country out to the West Coast?
Well, it's not true that "all the people are already on the West Coast", but even if it were, YC might awaken to the obvious truth that rapid population growth in west coast cities is not sustainable for much longer. Then, as a forward-looking, long-term thinking company, they might see fit to establish footprints in some of the less crowded, less expensive inland cities before someone else beats them to it.
Personally, I don't understand why people who have skills that are marketable in virtually any city in the first world choose to live with roommates in crappy century-old homes or tiny apartments in a handful of coastal cities. To each their own, I guess.
Because, in reality, there are only a handful of decent cities that offer a plethora of jobs, interesting ones at that. Sure, a bunch of techies could move to Columbus, but there you have worse weather, more sprawl, fewer job options, and for those who do want to start their own company, a dearth of VC money.
Get YCombinator to open branches in the midwest, and you'll start to see that change. Until then, it likely won't.
How do you know this?
You can be a Microsoft tech lead in Raleigh-Durham, too, but you aren't going to have as many opportunities with Amazon/Facebook/Google/etc there.
Actually, I doubt that Microsoft tech leads are as special as all that.
Get YCombinator to open a branch in Toledo, and you might see that start to change. But currently, most people aren't rushing to go back to the Rust Belt because, while they might get one job, if they get fired/laid off/the company goes under/the management is abusive, there isn't much in the way of alternatives.
- why do we spend like 60-70%+ of federal housing dollars on high income earners / rich people?
- why is section 8 gutted to all hell?
I don't see why it's so shocking that there's no affordable housing, when some of the big old programs aimed at reducing that are a shadow of their former selves, and we spend most of our effort in housing just throwing cash at people who already make a lot of it.
Or maybe people like Zach mentioned in the article do think this stuff, but they're taking baby steps because the political capital necessary to actually stop the above points is probably huge.
This is also almost always coded language for not wanting to live near racial minorities. This whole article is yet another example of baby boomers pulling up the ladder behind them. The millennials I know are angry and there's going to be a reckoning in the near future as it comes to a head.
Something is going to happen - you can't pull the ladder behind you, keep everyone you don't like out of your neighborhood, and reduce mobility to protect your assets without serious backlash.
The propaganda output of 1%'er think tanks has been consistently stating that it's an unaffordable luxury that will bankrupt the nation for 30 odd years.
They have several ulterior motives for saying this. It's not just that they want to free up money for tax cuts -- stripping people of social security benefits also makes them more dependent upon employers, which employers really like.
Wall Street would like to see that multi-trillion dollar pot of money privatized so that they can manage it and cream off fees.
These groups are the ones pushing for social security "reform". They tried pretty hard under Bush (who was willing) and pretty hard under Obama (likewise). Still no dice though - too many votes to be lost still.
Then Adobe moved in, the area by the canal got rebuilt into office space, and it's characterless.
I haven't, though, because artists were displaced by engineers. This has nothing to do with Indian culture; it has everything to do with STEM steamrolling the arts scene.
Cirque de flambe does not interact well with office buildings. The Fremont mostly free movies required an open parking lot, not a developed block.
That all moved to Sodo, and then Marginal Way area, and then I don't know. Maybe it died out. Maybe it moved on. I did.
You have a nice backyard landscaped how you like, you've got beautiful maple trees, a deck. You've lived there and loved it for years. You made it what it is.
Then your neighbors house gets torn down and turned into a 5 story high-rise with no parking. Suddenly your privacy is gone, your serenity is gone, and so is your parking.
It should be easy to understand how this would be frustrating for people.
The NIMBY attitude of "This town was perfect when I moved here in 1974 and it should never change!" is such a terrible attitude for so many reasons. Change is a part of life sometimes and actively denying other people's opportunity to improve their own situation when you are in a position of privilege is how you eventually get guillotines in the streets.
I'm totally onboard with the fact that things need to change, and people need housing. 100% onboard. Why can't we do things like beautify the currently uninhabited/run down buildings and turn those into apartments? Why not change the old mill into a huge apartment complex and build a community around it?
Why does it have to be a skyscraper slapped into the middle of an existing neighborhood filled with trees and single family homes? Why do developers buy a perfectly good home, and tear it down and put 12 apartments on a single lot? That doesn't make economic sense, and it doesn't make aesthetic sense either.
Instead they should all move to the midwest, south, or NE, where cost of living is a small fraction of the west coast. They can pay off a very nice house in full for less than the cost of a downpayment in any trendy west coast city, and they can easily afford to live a stereotypical middle class lifestyle - house, cars, kids, vacations, a stay at home parent - on a reasonable income, something which is now increasingly difficult on the west coast where cost of living is extraordinarily high.
I sincerely hope that various companies start aggressively opening offices in middle America, the south, upstate NY, etc. Maybe someone should produce a few goofy TV shows about how 'quirky' and 'cool' and 'hip' those destinations are, turn them into the new cultural mecca for all the flighty trend chasers, and let the west coast housing mess take care of itself.
God, I hope not. California can stay in California, keep it out of the Midwest.
If you think that businesses moving into the midwest will evenly distribute over its entirety, think again. Network effects will cause companies to cluster together into hubs no matter where they go.
Starter homes are $800,000 in Seattle Washington.
It would be a long while before it becomes a problem.
If I knew a secret to get better tech jobs out here, I would do it yesterday. (If someone wants a technical cofounder in an interesting location, let me know. ;)
With so many of my friends on the West Coast, I feel the siren song myself, and it's tough to combat network effects.
My boss was making under $200,000/yr and he was living a similar life to someone making over $1M on the coasts.
In New England, it boggles the mind that startups and giants like GE throw millions into building offices in Kendall and Seaport when they could build elsewhere in the region for much cheaper (Worcester, southern New Hampshire, Rhode Island/Fall River/New Bedford) and allow many of their employers to get reasonably priced homes. Many are served by commuter rail or bus systems, have nearby universities, and are within reasonable driving distance of Boston/Cambridge.
And then there's telecommuting. Automattic, Zapier and a few others have embraced it but they are the exception.
What they're REALLY paying for is knowledge from other companies. A person who has worked at Google and other innovative shops has (hopefully) learned a bunch of great processes, and will (hopefully) implement them at their new workplace.
So an area like the Bay Area is filled with collective knowledge because there are great companies there, and all that talent is jostling around.
https://streets.mn/2018/03/14/fourplexes-everywhere-bold-ref...
It's striking how much the media is attempting to foment intergenerational strife over issues that are fundamentally about wealth inequality.
I knew it was bad, but didn't realize it's that bad. One Seattlite once told me there are a lot of homeless people because they refer to it as Freeattle, as they get lot of things for free - not sure if that is true. Anyone who is from Seattle know more?
Homelessness rates in Seattle track rising (and falling! lol) rents very closely, which is a difficult-to-explain coincidence for anyone who really believes that the cause is actually random people from all over America catching a bus to Seattle to get into a shelter.
summary piece for reading - https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/homeless/king-coun...
the survey mentioned - https://thecisforcrank.com/tag/applied-survey-research/ - https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3480319-City-of-Seat...
As the young recent transplants build their savings and seek to plant roots and start families when they get into their 30s, they'll look at single family housing. But the natural beauty includes water on two sides of the city and there is basically no undeveloped land to add more single family houses. Combining these employment, demographic and geographic factors, I expect demand to continue surging forward and supply to remain constrained. Building up and new apartments coming online is starting to reduce pressure on soaring condo/apartment rent costs, and building up to increase supply is a valve that can continue to reduce rent pressure for those without families. But I don't see a way forward to increase single family housing inside the city limits - in fact supply will go down as more townhomes and apartment buildings go up.
It seems, as the article hints at but doesn't much explore, that American Millenial coastal urban dwellers will need to develop a new conception of family housing (that is not single family housing with a private yard). I think there are options here, and the conception of the American dream replete with single family housing around an urban core seems like a relatively recent post-war phenomenon. What does family housing in Tokyo look like? In dense European cities? Historically before the 20th century? What new forms could it take, especially as we build up and think about modern amenities? With new transportation options (ride sharing, better bike infra, soon self driving cars) garages are less necessary, with new meal delivery options kitchens are less necessary, and with the sharing economy we can cut down on storage space. I'd like to see some new creative approaches to modern US family housing.
In most of these discussions there is an implied moral stance that people have some level of "rights" about where they can live. I think all but the most stringent anarchists agree you don't have a moral right to live in a sprawling mansion on the coast, regardless of your contributions to society. And most agree that it's not right if someone working 40 hours a week can't afford a home anywhere in the United States.
But, between those two extremes is an interesting continuum. My belief is that most of us grew up in a culture that placed the "right" point on that continuum right between the city and neighborhood level of scale. Most people should have the right to live in the city of their choosing, regardless of your income level. But you don't have the right to pick your neighborhood. If you want to live in the most desireable neighborhood, then it's fair for you to have to pay for the luxury.
I think that's been a stable cultural point for a lot of cities in the US for many decades. New York is a good example of a city that supported people from the righest elites down to poverty-level working class.
But economic disparity has gotten so bad now that the affordability point on the continuum no longer aligns with our rightful point. If you are working class, there are no cities where the entire commutable region surrounding it is outside of your price point. San Francisco is one and Seattle is well on its way.
I think much of the anger we feel comes from those two points being out of alignment. We feel that people should be able to live in the metro area of their choosing, but the economic reality is that for some cities now, they can't.
I don't believe any simple supply and demand model of housing will fix this. Seattle is a highly desireable area and the demand is elastic. I think you'd see:
Increase housing supply ->
Prices go down ->
City becomes more appealing for businesses ->
Business grow and need more employees ->
Demand goes up ->
Prices return
You'll end up with just as many $800k houses (or apartments), but now with comparatively worse infrastructure because it wasn't designed for higher density. There are plenty enough high paid tech employees in the US and the world at large to absorb any additional housing Seattle has to offer.I think the fundamental problem is that when you combine increasing wealth disparity, high mobility, and people sorting themselves economically, you naturally end up with large regions of the country that are only affordable by certain economic levels. And that spatial fact conflicts with our moral belief that no large region of the US should be effectively off limits to someone based on their wealth.
___
And woe to the millennial who dares dream of starting a family, warns Myra Lara, a 30-year-old architect and affordability advocate. Of her Seattle friends who have become parents, all but one has been exiled to the suburbs. “It sucks—I never see them,” says Lara. “But that’s what they have to do.”
__
Lol "woe" indeed. This is probably the ultimate first-world problem.
Not the GP, but I think GP was referring to the dismay expressed over having one's friends move away to the suburbs.
If you want a house like that, and you're not super wealthy, find a remote gig and move outside the big tech-boom cities. Here in the Rust Belt, houses like that are very affordably priced.
If enough people with tech-generated wealth start living and spending money here, it'll make progress solving the regional inequalities that are driving support for Donald Trump.
But oh no, they don't have Seattle's views? Cry me a river.
I'm happy to live in a well-built, quiet condo that I pay a bit more for than "standard" condos or whatever. Don't really need a house. But even these are nearly impossible to come by. There's practically zero inventory.
Your mileage may vary depending on much or little you value things like remoteness, lack of traffic, mountains vs desert vs forest. Yes, if you're a hardcore mountaineer it might be tough to beat the north Cascades but for the rest of us there are a lot of good options.
I can summarize a lot of the comments in this thread with:
"But I want it!"
The city isn't obligated in making areas you like affordable to you.
I wrote a bit about this recently:
Either your line of work demands you be at a specific location, or you're competing with the 0.001% of the entire world for a remote job, with employers that would rather do without than make do with sub-superlative people.
If you ever find yourself in Northern Wisconsin, sea kayaking the Apostle Islands is pretty spectacular. Check out http://livingadventure.com/ for more info.
In some places there is also racism to various extents, but even in the absence of racism, there is just a significant handicap to not being a member of the default group.
In contrast, I fit right at home in a cosmopolitan place like Silicon Valley where there isn't really a default culture. Of course, it's basically a global phenomenon that cosmpolitan cities tend to be far more expensive than the cities that more closely reflect the local culture.
Note that the proportion of blacks doesn't really contribute to a cosmopolitan city - it just means the city has two dominant native cultures instead of one.
http://www.businessinsider.com/the-11-nations-of-the-united-... is a useful lens to consider in this matter. Similar analyses from other lens with largely similar results have been applied.
The problem to solve is distributing economic viability more widely across the country and then building more cities and towns in the density that supports family formation and doesn't dehumanize the occupants: single family homes on 5-12k square foot lots surrounding walkable commercial districts.
Allowing our population to naturally stabilize by restricting immigration would help too.
That being said, it is definitely the direction we will need to head evolutionarily if we are going to survive and become a space-fairing species. All hail the borg I guess...
Clarifying my question: how do you propose to create economic opportunities where housing is cheap but prospects are few, particularly as economic activity seems to want to concentrate.
Wealth redistribution is inevitable at this point, ideally in the form of debt jubilee but, given the political power of the banking class, more likely via something more chaotic.
Actually, I'll go a step or two further and suggest that a mix of rentier taxes (land and other monopolistic elements) and income supports (UBI, living minimum wage, additional targeted support as needed), workplace and labour protections, collective bargaining, are almost certainly required.
UBI without LVT merely pumps wages to landlords. Similar further arguments extend to otther elements above.
But that leaves us with the fundamental issue remaining: natural clustering tendencies of many economic activitties, particularly dematerialised ones ("informattion work") tend toward clusteering (where skills are scarce) or outsourcing to the lowest-wage centre (where skill is automated away). All other areas are effectively dead zones.
(In-person services, repair, and construction remain, but these are poorly-scaling, low-profit sectors.)
That's the dynamic I see as needing addressing. And UBI + LVT don't get you there, that I see.
Any insights there?