Ask YC: Best ways to become socially adept?
I know about and have done Toastmasters. Are there any other effective ways to develop my interpersonal abilities, besides reading "How to Make Friends and Influence People" etc?
He later told me that he didn't feel at all comfortable during the conversation. He said that he has been trying to "bust out of his geeky shell" by talking to random people. To me it looked like he was just a friendly guy chatting with a stranger.
Moral of the story: just do it. It will probably feel weird but you are the only person who will notice.
While this advice is, of course, true, it's also pretty common for introverts without a lot of social experience to not notice when they're making someone uncomfortable. So, starting conversations is a great way to get over the fear of them, ending them in a reasonable time frame is a great way to insure you aren't crossing the boundary into uncomfortable (for the other person...I know that the introvert is going to be uncomfortable throughout the exchange, as I'm an introvert myself, and so the cues that may be obvious to most folks aren't as obvious to an introvert...insert boiling frog analogy here).
We just don't get energized from being around people. This doesn't mean we can't or don't. Like any aspect of temperament, it's mostly immutable: even a socially adept introvert (which I like to think I am) is still an introvert.
Wikipedia puts it well: "Introversion is not the same as shyness, though introverts may also be shy. Introverts choose solitary over social activities by preference, whereas shy people avoid social encounters out of fear."
btw - I second that this is a skill that does not come from books. It requires real effort on your part.
Also, go to programmer meetups. It will be many people that you can empathize with. You'll have a lot in common with the crowd an it is a good way to start.
Climb down your geek tower and stop judging people (you may be judging people without even knowing it), then will come respect for people.
When you respect anyone around, you will gradually find interest in them; That will help break the ice, conversation will come easy and you’ll found out that people are much interesting than you think.
Not a very "social" tactical move to do when there were about two girls around the area who heard his comment and some hackers wonder why girls don't talk to them.
ok, just kidding. But in some "Tech parties" you always seem some of them and it is very easy to spot the Gold Digging types.
Once you get into the swing of things, instinct takes over and you'll be fine. You probably have something interesting to discuss with almost everyone else out there. The trick is finding it.
I don't buy into the philosphy of learning about popular culture, sports, or current events just to have something to talk about. Stick with what turns you on; you can be yourself (who else would you be?), and the same thing probably turns someone else on, too.
(Aside: A drink or two couldn't hurt. That's what it's there for.)
Tech events are great too - barcamps, meetups etc. You'd be surprised at exactly how many hackers don't just defy the monosyllabic geek stereotype, but smash it out of the park.
Iterate until you are comfortable with it, and can leave your wallet at home.
Singing and playing guitar helps too, it makes you wanted and welcome, which you want to be.
A non-trivial fact for me was that a lot of conversations aren't about information; talking is a game, played for fun. Read "Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas", watch "Pulp Fiction", and try to do the same.
Some people and things are more interesting than others of course. Learning how to gracefully exit a conversation is step #2.
I tried becoming more "socially adept" for quite a while, but even though I can put on a pretty lively appearance on the outside, it's just not me. I'm an introvert and I accept that.
One of the best bits of advice I've heard recently is to "focus on strengths, not weaknesses." That is, there's no point hammering away improving at things you're bad at, and ending up mediocre at everything, if you can focus on the things you already kick ass at and become world class!
Most people who are socially inept tend only to be so with the public or people who are not considered close to them. Take Stanley Kubrick. He got a reputation for being an appallingly bad socializer, yet most of his closest contacts talk about what a friendly and amazing person he was.
So.. enough people are socially awkward, or even downright grating, but are or were world class in their field. These people should be an inspiration. Don't hammer away at making yourself a socially popular person if it takes energy away from being kickass.. because if you're kickass, you don't need many social skills.
Essentially, there is something missing and I feel disconnected from others. I cannot engage them on an intuitive level, I engage them on an analytical level which tries to look natural, because my intuition is not normal, i.e. doesn't sync with most people. I think this is true for many introverts, and is why they tend to be exhausted by social interaction.
In my case, I get on ferociously well with a handful of people, but almost no-one else (at least, not for longer than an hour or two). That's good enough for me, but if ALL social interaction is a problem for you, then best of luck with your journey! :)
Oh you said besides that...well practice what it preaches. Us folk (geeks/nerds/hackers) tend to like to show how much we know about a subject. Some old dude is talking about how his phone can now surf the web...what do you say? Act a bit surprised and ask him a bit more about the subject. Let HIM show what he knows, and get that little feeling of self-importance. Don't squash it by saying you could ssh in to work on your phone 5 years ago and that his phone is garbage.
Also practice, and have someone judge your performance. There are a zillion things to improve on here, it is a difficult art to master. I would also say it is a long road that I wouldn't be satisfied in saying I know well until I can sit in a room with anyone at anytime and befriend them and/or convince them they want to reconnect with me again shortly.
One last thing, I have the most difficulty talking to people I know well and respect. For example, I was recently discussing business and my goals with an old co-worker I really respected, and I found myself a bit flustered. Anyone else experienced this and/or have any suggestions?
But I think the key points are suited to all interactions. If you are first meeting someone...and I don't know how to phrase this to be politically correct...you are 'intimately' interested in, perhaps telling them about your magic card collection isn't the best approach. You could discuss his/her Starcraft skills instead :)
However, if it's a matter of professional self interest, there's no problem. I'm quite bold going up and talking to people very senior in rank.
The most effective way I know of is the giving of ourselves. I don't mean in the passionate sense, but more as a form of empathy, as a spiritual generosity.
For instance, try responding to people as if they were your brother or sister instead of a stranger, with candid good will; usually they'll respond in kind. If someone does something you like, tell them - nothing gushy, just let them know in a direct and quietly thankful way.
Let someone in a hurry go ahead of you in a queue, let them overtake you when you're driving, thank the bank teller or the shop assistant. All these things are so small, but they all add up, and from each act there will be a corresponding positive effect within you.
The giving of yourselves in this way has an immediate and positive effect on the mind/body. Try to be aware of how it feels as you do all of these things. You will feel your whole mind/body loosening up, a feeling of lightness that can't be achieved in any other way.
B) Listening. Speaking is an important part of socializing, but it's a minor part.
Step 1 - Read most of http://www.amazon.com/Nlp-21-Days-Harry-Alder/dp/0749920300/... - this is NOT a good scientific book, but it seems to be good at convincing you to step outside your comfort zone. Optionally, skip this step and do sit-ups and push-ups instead which will make you feel more confident and comes with a low price tag.
Step 2 - Practice on an opposite-gendered friend whom you have no romantic interest in. If such a person does not exist, skip this step.
Step 3 - Attend social events. These are easy to find: book groups, local music, free martial arts class. Talk to people with no intent to "hook up" or even make friends. And I don't mean "tell yourself you're not interested so you'll have a better shot." I mean just talk to them. Ask something about the event. Ask what time it is (don't wear a watch or carry a cell phone). You don't have to have a conversation. You just have to communicate. Likewise, anytime you eat at a restaurant require yourself to compliment at least one employee while you are there.
Step 4 - Rinse and repeat until you realize you're enjoying all of the events and you talk to random people with more ease. As some of the comments have said, you can have great conversations talking about silly stuff that you don't care about if you enjoy the process of facilitating a good conversation.
Tips:
Don't drink unless you know your limit and have a pre-established track record for staying under your limit. Otherwise, you will end up undoing all confidence building when you get hammered and embarrass yourself once.
Avoid drunk people. They are a pain in the ass and will spill things on you. Both of these tips are easy to stick to if you don't go where people are drinking.
[the Game] - this book is about the secret lives of pickup artists and their quest to find either a Beta or Alpha Gal. This book offers- ZERO advice if you are looking for a Gamma.
[The Art of Deception: Controlling the Human Element of Security] - from Kevin Mitnick, one of the fore-most books on social engineering. Reading this book kept us out of a few scams.
[How to Succeed with Women] - Sounds cheesy, but goes over the basics that "geeks" often miss, including dressing appropriately, grooming, and polite conversation.
[He's Just Not That Into You] - Manual for women on how to tell if a guy doesn't care about them. Useful for learning about behaviors to avoid and their underlying reasons.
[Self-Made Man: One Woman's Journey into Manhood and Back] - Can't recommend this one enough. Norah Vincent lived for a year as a man, and reports back on the challenges and successes she had. Invaluable for understanding both men and women.
There's a fine line between confident and creepy.
i will usually look, smile, and see if she responds, before i say something. if she does not smile, i go back to something else.
those express exactly (exactly!) as I feel. Let's see how much more we can relate. Do you also:
-Think that you are quite a weird yet funny individual, and wish you can show that to the people you know, but somehow can't? -Also, you are often feel "closed-out" when another exuberant person comes on scene. Also, you have no problem chatting, emailing, etc. and can express yourself without limitation that way. -Speeches are easy because everyone uniformly has their attention on you, but when you are in a casual group situation and have to vie for attention it gets intimidating (and you will undoubtedly reprimand yourself for later). -You also find it hard to come out and say something once you already start a pattern of not saying anything, as you begin to become over-anxious about people's reaction to your change. ...
this list can go on and on...if you're not looking at this thread anymore, yters, at least i got to spill my guts out which doesn't feel that bad. If you want to continue the list, i'd love to hear other people's situations as well, we can treat it as a fun little game.
Spilling my guts is something that's helpful for me too.
When you go to social events, go with a friend and make it a friendly competition to see who can meet the most interesting people.
Volunteer to do as many public speaking things as you can. And just generally force yourself out of your comfort zone. Reading won't get you very far, it's just practice practice practice.
The right course of action will then depend on the insecurity, but exercise and improved health generally boosted my confidence. If you experience anxiety over others judging you, consider that in most situations the person you're worried about probably isn't paying much attention to you, and even if they do notice you do something odd, they won't necessarily remember it; everything only revolves around you in _your_ head. Most of all, just get off your butt and do something about whatever bothers you -- if you're embarrassed by your long hair, get a haircut. A surprising number of my own insecurities were things like that -- easily fixable if I only took the time to calm down, consider them, and make a list of solutions.
Go to events that you're actually interested in (talking to someone with similar interests is stacking the deck), join a club or society in the same vein. When you've got a free night, check out the local calendar. Whatever you do, just get in the habit of going out, going out, going out! Don't prepare, read up for tips, construct elaborate plans...just go out. Most people are out for the same reason as you. Culley says it best when he says you can't find this in a book. It takes effort.
And remember: the worst thing that can happen is you stay inside and nothing happens.
The other part is dreadful boredom, which I know sounds way arrogant, but I'm not saying I'm bored because I think I'm better (though that's part of it). I also seem to lack something, not sure what. I've heard about people with small souls and no chests, and I think that's me.
Things: wardrobe, humor, hair, attitude, conversation, hygene
Dating is a huge help. A girl will help you improve all of the above things.
WARNING: Don't apply hacker skills to understanding women (on anything more than a very high level). You'll hit a critical error.
If you haven't, the advice in it sums up to: be honest, respect others, respect yourself. That's really all there is to it.
The important thing about how to make more friends is to know how to BE a friend. Think about what you can offer other people, think about how to make the law of comparative advantage work for you.
I also highly recommend Eckhart Tolle's "A New Earth" .. which will not directly talk about how to make friends, but will dig into the root causes of why you have issues with making friends.
Also I would say, one thing that helped me a lot, is I have recently been watching the latest season of "Beauty and the Geek." observe closely the character of "Joe," and instead of laughing at him or thinking how much better you are than him, think about how you are, how all of us are, so very much like him and so very much unwilling to admit it.
I am often forced to judge people. But I don't like it. At a deep level, I am unsuited towards judging people negatively.
One guy gave me roses to pass out to pretty women at a bar to try and hook up. I passed them out because I do like the idea of recognizing beautiful women, but I shut down when one actually was interested in me and tried to make contact. I also tried drinking and another tried dirty dancing with me, but I mainly just got depressed and I was pretty much a fish.
When I was right off school, I had the same problems as you guys, mainly overthinking about everything, and everybody you meet, makes it hard to just have casual conversations.
Just as I learned in soccer, you should just stop overthinking and overanalyzing, and just go with it, causually and naturally.
Also, in my current job, I interact with a lot more people everyday, so I was forced out of my shell a while ago.
But, when you are in parties, you have to make some effort to reach to people and talk to them. Even thou nothing might come out of it, it is better than just staying in one corner and doing nothing.
Anyway, stop reading books and just put yourself out there and practice.
It will help when you meet girls.
The thing that turns me off in interpersonal interaction is the rote manner of interaction that I don't know, and don't want to learn. When people interact as they really are is what interests me.
For instance, a teacher challenged me to ask a girl out, so I made a dare out of it with a friend. Girl turned me down though:P a couple of them.
If you mean the talking about the weather thing, that's what talking people in bars should teach you to get beyond.
Maybe I'm just wanting two conflicting goals. The expected way of acting is natural for most people, but not for me, and I wish I could interact in a way that is natural for me too.
I think I'll give the bar thing a shot. Any types of people I should watch out for?
I'd say work your way up to attractive women. They're the hardest for a number of reasons (you're afraid of them due to approach anxiety, they're used to approaches and are more on their guard, etc.) Start off talking to guys and less attractive females. People are always most receptive toward people who appear to be in their own demographic and social status level, so start there and work your way out.
But, it isn't my natural reaction, which is why I have to learn how their system of interaction works, which seems like too much trouble.
The best way to find out what works is to try. Just go out there and interact with people. Observe them to see how you are doing.
What was that one line? To be enthusiastic, you have to act enthusiastic!
1) practice a lot
2) recognize/record your problems/faults/issues.
3) work on either improving the improvable problems, or working around the unimprovable ones.
it would really help to have a friend looking on from the outside to help note problems. you have to be really open to change to make this work, though.
I hate to do this but I'm going to advocate acting classes. The reason I hate to do it is there's always somebody in an improv class who's obviously just there to become more spontaneous. If you study acting because you have a genuine interest in doing it, people who are there to become more spontaneous, or better at public speaking, or whatever, are just annoying as hell. Acting classes do make you socially adept but PLEASE avoid serious professional acting classes in favor of weekend workshops at community colleges. Also if you are "that guy" and you're taking acting classes without any real interest in acting please understand that the serious actors want you to die.
I think the best option suggested here is user groups and presentations in front of other geeks. Not because talking to geeks is going to expose you to incredible social skills - far from it - but because sincere interest is a much healthier motivator for any type of social activity than the desire to be social for its own sake.
So, I'd say find someone who's really good at socializing and hang out with him. 1000x better and faster than any book or doing it on your own.
what do you imagine would be the great benefits of having more casual social interactions?
also they should be open to the possibility that they are mistaken; the conversation ought to be able to go either way.
A book would be better than an online test because the point should be to learn about all the other personality types, and how they interact, rather than understand your own.
http://www.amazon.com/Please-Understand-Me-Character-Tempera...
The other reason is mere career progression, but I'm not especially keen on that either. I detest the artificial relationships of networking and the like. I'm of the opinion that I can easily be financially free in at most 5 years, so there is no need to make alot of money.
Maybe my real problem is a lack of courage to go with my own judgment. I'm confused though because my own judgment seems so much at variance with most people I know on this issue that it seems like I'm missing something.
- EDIT -
That's too strongly worded. I'm being moody.
Really though, I quite appreciate the concern. And I'll take the advice seriously and put it into practice.
Disclaimer: I am quite socially inept, and don't even care . . .