Herman Miller Cosm Chair | Hacker News Reader

Herman Miller Cosm Chair

hermanmiller.com

26 pointssathley48 comments

I used Aerons for several years back when they first came out. While they are really nice looking, I and my staff found them to be terribly uncomfortable. We all went and tested multiple chairs at the Merchandise Mart. The Steelcase Leap was the clear winner. I still have and use several of them almost 20 years later.

The Aeron has two major flaws, IMHO. It looks like the Cosm may have the same.

1.) Arms that recline with the back which causes your wrists to have to break to reach the keyboard

2.) The "trampoline" design of the seat means the front edge of the chair digs into the underside of your thighs.

This was the dealbreaker for me. I tried one, but just never found it comfortable no matter what adjustments I made. Instead, I switched to the Humanscale Freedom. While it lacks extensive adjustments that many find essential, it's been a great chair that has held up very well. In the few instances where parts have worn due to age and use, the company has stood behind the product and shipped me replacement parts with no questions asked.

I think there are mesh people and seat cushion people. I have an Aeron at home and we had Leaps in the conference room at a previous employer. The Leaps are fine but I much prefer the Aeron. For one thing, I find it much cooler in hot weather.

Herman Miller chairs are somewhat of a scam. They aren't really ergonomic in that they round inwards at the top edges around where your shoulder blades contact with the mesh. If you actually have good posture, this will round your shoulders inwards as well.

People can say how much they love their Aeron all over the internet, but you have to understand what that means. They are just saying that they feel good while sitting in them, which often means they sit hunched over and it makes them relaxed. This doesn't mean the chair is helping them in any way. Often it means that the chair is compensating for their poor posture and making them feel good despite not being healthy.

You can see videos all over youtube of people actually working while sitting in Herman Miller chairs, and they all have poor posture. For example:

https://youtu.be/_R8bIIQxajA?t=15

https://youtu.be/cGEb-q5JMU0?t=17

Most chairs above around $500 will be fine. That is to say, you will still suffer serious health issues like everyone else who sits down all day, but the chair should not cause any pain while you are sitting down.

If you have back pain and so on, you should probably go to the gym, which will be the ultimately way to feel comfortable at work and everywhere else. Although, it still will do little to reverse the effects of sitting down all day. Programming is a career that guarantees immediate and serious health issues due to sitting and poor posture.

Wait a year or so and you can pick one up for half-price on the used market from the failed dot coms that bought them new and then ran out of money 6 months later and laid everybody off. Here in the south bay area, you can pick up Aeron chairs at consignment shops for a couple hundred bucks.

I looked for quite a while but couldn't find a large model on the second hand market so ended up buying new.

They do come and go pretty quickly. You need to be at the right place at the right time.

As someone who recently purchased a high end chair, my only advice is go try them in person(!), and sit how you actually sit.

Herman Miller Aeron for example is great for people who are either small or sit "correctly." If you fold your legs under yourself, it is super uncomfortable.

My finalists were the Aeron, Embody, Steelcase Leap, and Gesture. The Leap and Gesture worked much better for my lazy ("natural") seating position. I ultimately purchased a Leap because the Gesture's arms shifted every time I stood up, and weren't as supportive.

Also our local dealer matched a major online dealer ($150 off).

Isn't it worth it to buy a chair that will help you sit correctly? Especially if your natural way of sitting can cause damage or promote imbalance over time?

There are 3 different Aeron sizes FYI, so if one is too small you might just need to try a different size.

I'm aware. I was at a dealer, they had all three sizes.

I tried the B and C, both were uncomfortable for my normal seated position, my legs literally hit the underside/frame. For a smaller person, with shorter legs, they will likely have a better experience.

The Aeron is only for people who are small? They make them in 3 different sizes and Size C can easily handle a very large person. The level of customization is why they became so popular. To that end, they also have premium versions that have even more 'levers and knobs' beyond the standard features. To your point, most people are uninformed about the Aeron (or similar) and the degree of customization that's achievable. But I ultimately do agree with you, it's not a chair that's designed for everyone and you should try before you buy. A great task chair fitted to your body makes a world of difference.

I use to buy and sell used office furniture in the early 00's to pay for college.

> The Aeron is only for people who are small? They make them in 3 different sizes and Size C can easily handle a very large person.

But does nothing for leg length, which is the issue. As I said in the post you replied to, if you fold your legs under yourself the Aeron doesn't work.

For smaller people, they likely won't notice it, but for larger/taller the back of your legs brush against the underside/front of the chair in that position.

The Aeron seems to want you to sit correctly or not at all.

I also use a (2nd hand) Steelcase Leap. It's definitely great for slouching which is comfortable but I guess I should work on improving my posture.

I have to say the Aeron is my absolute favourite chair and I've worked in several different environments.

I haven't had the luxury of testing other high-end ergonomic chairs, but I had to buy an Aeron for my home office as soon as I started getting serious about remote-working.

I can sit in this thing for a lengthy 12-hour shift and feel physically OK doing so (with some regular small walking breaks of course) - and I cannot say the same thing for any other chair.

I also think it just looks fantastic, it's definitely iconic and I have expressed my interest to Herman Miller in this new chair even though the one I'm sitting in right now is five years old and still feels mint condition.

Every Herman Miller chair I've tried (and several other brands of "ergonomic" chairs) seem to be designed in such a way that there's a big gap in support around the mid-back area, in-between the lumbar area and the shoulder blades. There's very firm, forward support for the lumbar spine and shoulders, and then this weird gap in the middle. This causes my mid-back to round into the empty space, which in turn causes my shoulders and neck to slump forward.

Judging from the photo, this chair looks like it has the same problem.

I can't for the life of me figure out how or why anyone considers these chairs to be comfortable. Maybe my back just has a weird shape or something, but these chairs seem to literally fight to keep you from sitting up straight with a healthy posture. And yet, everyone seems to love them. It feels like some sort of bizarre conspiracy.

To be clear, this is not just my initial impressions. Everyone loves these name-brand luxury chairs so much that I've owned three of them over the last ten years (a Mirra, an Embody, and a Humanscale Freedom), because I keep thinking maybe I just need a different model, or maybe I haven't figured out how to adjust the damn things properly. They all feel well-built and high quality, but they all feel more and more uncomfortable the longer I sit in them, and I can't find a way to use them that doesn't seem to cause progressively worse back and neck problems. I can't figure out where the disconnect is happening.

Curious, are you using their lumbar insert? I used to and always found it uncomfortable. I later learned from a Herman Miller rep that most people shouldn’t use it and the chair provides support from the large mesh contact surface. Since removing it I’ve been way more comfortable, going on 5 years now.

ditto. the lumbar insert was REALLY painful for me. super comfortable without it.

Maybe that would've helped for the Mirra, though I did tend to keep it at its minimum setting anyway, since I also found it rather uncomfortable. But the Embody and Freedom chairs have no removable lumbar support to begin with....

On the other hand, I really like it. But then I seem to really prefer having good lumbar support in general in cars etc.

Eames Aluminum Group, looks good, feels good.

15 years ago I went to look at chairs after finally tiring of the "cheap" $200 Office Depot chairs that needed replacing every couple years. The office furniture store I went to had several Aeron chairs and all of them were broken in various ways. I took that as a sign and didn't get one.

Instead I got a Cramer Triton which is a fairly basic looking chair, but I found comfortable for working at the computer and it was rated for 3 shift use with a fairly long warranty. Later I got a total of maybe 6 of them for my company and they held up really well.

I left that company and the new company had a bunch of Aeron chairs, the best I could find of the unused chairs was one that I could get into a reasonable position but couldn't adjust at all once it was there.

Fast forward 4 years and yesterday I spent about 30 minutes sitting, mostly using a standing desk. :-)

I much prefer the DXRacer King Zero: https://www.dxracer.com/au/en-au/product/1/gaming_chair/king...

This looks like an OfficeMax chair with red trim.

The premium model gaming-market chairs (AKRacing/DXRacer) are actually great as general office chairs, I'm super happy with mine. They also have office-styled versions (e.g. https://www.akracing.com/product/obsidian-office-chair/)

The quality is definitely far beyond the office max special. I was surprised by the box the thing came in - absolutely massive. The chair is a tank

Makes me think of line from fuckedcompany.com during Bubble 1.0: “You can have my Aeron when you pry it from my cold, dead ass”

That brings back memories. Wonder what he's doing now?

I've got 2 Aerons in my home office right now and they're awesome. Cost me £100 each, 6 months old, bought from a government department who paid a fortune for them. That's where your tax money goes it seems.

>That brings back memories. Wonder what he's doing now?

https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=pud

Awesome, thank you.

Airon is the emacs of chairs.

That's a little unfair, the Aeron doesn't give you carpal tunnel syndrome ;)

This makes me wonder what's the Vim of chairs?

One where you don't get out of again without 5 years of experience?

A barstool, with a nice padded seat. Some can add a small backrest.

It’s everything you’d ever need from a piece of furniture except a good chair? :)

You are always forgetting how to use all the adjustment levers?

The Staple’s branded Tarance is the nicest chair I’ve sat on in some time. And it’s modestly priced ($265CDN). Check it out next time you’re in Staples.

Anybody have a recommendation for an inexpensive chair that isn't bad for your back or body?

The IKEA Markus is around $200 and often recommended as a good compromise on price and ergonomics.

This is a reassuring recommendation because I just did some research and the Markus was what I settled on in the affordable bracket.

Ikea's markus chair gets a lot of good reviews: it's one of the best options for the price.

https://xkcd.com/915/

Looks sleek. Especially love the typeface (Meta), chosen well to complement the chair’s design.

Or you could just just go the gym regularly, take frequent breaks from sitting, lose weight, eat healthy.

You don't need fancy chair if your back is not supporting a huge gut or is strength atrophied from never using it , you don't need a fancy mattress if your body is tired and your mind calm.

There is a very good reason Aeron chairs appeal to programmers...

I always wanted an Aeron. Finally got one and it's terrible. The bottom "breathable" fabric has to be so tight it's like sitting on a noncushioned chair. It might keep your ass cooler but at the expense of comfort.

I found a ~$150 chair on Amazon that is so much more comfortable and affordable.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000Q5XTE8/

Maybe it's because I'm a tall guy (and fairly overweight) but for me it's the mesh that makes it so good - it might feel tight and not exactly 'cushioned', but I can sit on it for hours without feeling sore, whereas nearly every other office chair after a while feels like I've sunk into the cushion and warped my sitting position - or hit the plastics/metal!

I'm glad someone likes it. I'm a Herman Miller fan, my dad's Eames Lounge Chair from the 70s got murdered in a tornado (so sad).

It makes me sad that they're so uncomfortable because I love the look (the Cobalt Blue from the 90s was awesome).

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