Hacker News Reader

Comment by mosselman | Hacker News Reader

Ryanair is a horrible airline. If you add up random costs you are confronted with during the whole process of flying with them they aren't even that much cheaper. With which I mean expensive meals/drinks, costs for suitcases, costs for checking in at the airport when you didn't have access to internet, etc. Leg space and general facilities are crappy and their handling of cancelled flights, etc is very poor. Whenever possible I don't fly with them en instead choose a more 'expensive' option.

View on HN

> Ryanair is a horrible airline. If you add up random costs you are confronted with during the whole process of flying with them they aren't even that much cheaper. Withwhich I mean expensive meals/drinks, costs for suitcases, costs for checking in at the airport when you didn't have access to internet, etc.

Complete BS. Cost of expensive meals and cost for suitcases aren't "random costs". They are entirely predictable and you have to make your decisions based on that. The people who can't do that end up paying for the ones that do.

I think he means arbitrary and unconventional, not random.

They're not arbitrary, they are well know and well documented, to the point of being really, really annoying for those of us who knows we don't want them. They were perhaps a bit unconventional ten years ago, but perfectly middle of the road today, even for legacy carriers.

Paying for food is arbitrary?

Yes, thank you.

Don't think of it as an airline, think of it as a greyhound bus which flies. Manage your expectations inline with how much you're actually paying.

'Random' might not have been the word, more 'arbitrary'.

One of those arbitrary costs of budget airlines is paying €50 for having your ticket printed at the airport (Lufthansa). Sometimes you just don't have a printer or the possibility to check in beforehand. Sure, I could 'plan ahead' and buy a cheap printer along the way to the airport and do it myself right then and there and it would be cheaper. I'd then throw away the printer or give it to someone else. How is $60 a reasonable price for airport check-in?

Many airlines still offer 'free' food in the plane, some don't and charge large amounts of money for very crappy food. Sure, I could 'plan ahead' and bring a large bag of food for me and my family, but then I have less room for other things and I get closer and closer to the weight limits that keep getting lower and lower. I can't even bring water from outside the airport past security. Some airlines offer complementary (due to higher ticket prices) drinks, but others ask for €4 for a 0.25ml drink. Planning ahead would mean I end up paying slightly less at the shops at the gate.

I understand the model that budget airlines use to make money; basic ticket prices and paying for upgrades. I am saying that I'd rather pay more for the tickets and then not be charged for everything along the way. It is much more transparent that way and I don't end up packing a picknick or chasing after hotel owners to print tickets, etc.

> One of those arbitrary costs of budget airlines is paying €50 for having your ticket printed at the airport (Lufthansa).

I have good news for you then. Ryanair no longer demands that you print the ticket. You can do everything from their app.

> One of those arbitrary costs of budget airlines is paying €50 for having your ticket printed at the airport (Lufthansa). Sometimes you just don't have a printer or the possibility to check in beforehand. Sure, I could 'plan ahead' and buy a cheap printer along the way to the airport and do it myself right then and there and it would be cheaper. I'd then throw away the printer or give it to someone else. How is $60 a reasonable price for airport check-in?

Ryanair allow you to use your phone, you don't need it printed up. You only have to pay if you want to check in at the airport. If everyone checked in online then Ryanair wouldn't need to have any staff at the check-in desk in the airport, if you don't check in in advance then you need to subsidise the costs of paying those staff members. If check in at the airport is free what that really means is that everyone else is subsidising you checking in early.

> Many airlines still offer 'free' food in the plane, some don't and charge large amounts of money for very crappy food.

Again, this amounts to everyone else subsidising your food. The airlines have to pay for it somehow, either they charge you or they increase the ticket prices. I hate airline food, and if I can avoid paying for it at all then great. Most Ryanair flights are <3 hours, you can manage that without eating.

> I can't even bring water from outside the airport past security. Some airlines offer complementary (due to higher ticket prices) drinks, but others ask for €4 for a 0.25ml drink. Planning ahead would mean I end up paying slightly less at the shops at the gate.

The water thing is universal. You can empty your bottle out and many airports have free fountains beyond security to refill.

> I am saying that I'd rather pay more for the tickets and then not be charged for everything along the way. It is much more transparent that way and I don't end up packing a picknick or chasing after hotel owners to print tickets, etc.

Why though? You're saying you'd rather not have the choice to pay for these things. You'd rather get a flight with higher costs just in case you feel like eating on the flight or having a bottle of water. Not only that, but you want everyone else on the flight who doesn't want those things to chip in and pay for your convenience.

Or you could just... not make use of any of the extra options and enjoy the cheapest price possible.

I spent a total of 8 EUR to travel from Germany to Bulgaria and back again two years ago with Ryanair. I fly with them whenever possible because they're by far the cheapest option available and I simply manage to not eat or drink something or go online for 2-3 hours, which really should be manageable for pretty much anyone.

I am often amazed at how many people just can't manage to go for 2-3 hours without stuffing their face.

Equally amazing too that people won't pay for a designated seat but will then spend 30 euros on drinks and snacks?

Or how they somehow can't bring some fruit or sandwiches in their hand baggage.

I think in general, people are very lazy and rather pay extra instead of plan ahead.

Plus you can take food with you if you need, and drinks from the airport past security, though those aren't necessarily cheaper.

Take an empty bottle and get free water at some UK airports. I've not confirmed this personally yet

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/travel/travel-tips#water

I did this in Hamburg (technically I bought a bottle, but I drank it before boarding, so I refilled it before flight). But in my limited experience, these fountains are not common in EU airports.

> If you add up random costs you are confronted with during the whole process of flying with them they aren't even that much cheaper.

I'm sorry but that is nonsense. I live abroad so am a frequent flyer back (say 5 or 6 times a year at regular intervals) home, for the past 5 years. I always compare the prices, never once have a rival airline beaten Ryanair. I've never had a bad issue either.

Personally as a 6ft 2 guy I love that they don't have seats which can recline :) the bane of my life on other airlines.

I don't know anyone who would fly on ryanair. If they were the only 'airline' flying somewhere I would consider that it's not possible to get to that place. As far as I'm concerned they only exist to spam up the flight listings

I wouldn't fly on anything other than Ryanair because every other airline is mad expensive. Yes, some things about it suck, but at least I can afford to fly, thanks to them.

For a lot of places in Europe, there is no other option. Ryanair has conquered connections to all smaller airports, where normally you'd need to change in Amsterdam/London/Frankfurt first, and they fly for 1/10th of the price most of the time. Yes, I hate them too, but if the options are a 2h flight with Ryanair for £30 or two 2h flights with BA for £300(or 2h flight + 5h train) then Ryanair wins 100% of the time.

The other option is to not go to that place. If you're starting in that place, the other option is to walk out and never go there again.

Yes, I'll make sure to never go home again. Good shout.

I'd rather go by train, then.

I am a train fan, used to do it all the time with the family though Europe. Now I can not afford it anymore and flying is always cheaper. Not much faster with the obstacles, nor more confinient, but simply more economic.

How on earth that is possible remains one of the best kept secrets (to me). But I am sure there is a boat load of tax money involved.

AFAICT, it mostly comes down to poor government regulation and wastefulness and monopolism. Trains get guaranteed right-of-way and don't have to compete with each other for the same routes, but airplanes do. Airplanes surely use orders of magnitude more energy/fuel per passenger to move people between two points, but incredibly they still cost less.

America is probably the poster child for how bad this can be, by looking at Amtrak. For all but the shortest routes along the northeast corridor, taking the train is slower, many times MUCH slower (like going cross-country), yet it can cost far, far more. Taking an Amtrak from DC to Seattle is horribly expensive and takes days, compared to an airplane which is a fraction of the cost and takes 6 hours or so. Why would anyone take an Amtrak for a long route like this? Mainly, it's just people who want the quaint experience of "seeing the country"; for actual travel between these points it makes no economic sense whatsoever. Even on the northeast corridor it doesn't make much sense for many cases/routes. Even worse, it's frequently much cheaper to take a bus (such as MegaBus) for inter-city trips in the NE corridor than Amtrak, if you don't mind it being slow (but not that much slower than Amtrak).

Even in Europe it can be difficult to do cross-country, even though the connections are excellent, fast, and on time. The problem is cost - I can travel within one country for reasonably little money, and 99% of the time beating flying on cost. But taking a train from Paris to Berlin or Berlin to Warsaw? Suddenly we're looking at hundreds of euros, in which case it's almost always cheaper to fly. I don't really understand why.

They are Europe's biggest airline by passenger trips, by quite a margin. I know one person who won't fly with them, but I don't believe you could inhabit such a rarefied bubble that everyone you know can and will avoid Ryanair every time.

It sounds like you're complaining that extras that are standard on competing airlines are charged separately on RyanAir. It's only horrible to you because you insist on having those things: in-flight meals, checked luggage, etc.

For people who don't want any food in-flight, and who can carry all their stuff in their carry-on luggage, it sounds like a good deal to me.

As for leg room, according to another comment here, the seats on RyanAir do not recline. As another tall guy, I'd rather have that than another inch of legroom. Legroom isn't that great when the person in front of you reclines their seat into your personal space.

I'm of the opposite opinion. I have yet to incur any extra costs whatsoever -- checking in can be done mobile, bring your own sandwich, etc. I don't mind random seating either, I'll have enough time to spend with my travel buddies at the destination. The leg space is a bit tight, but I love the fact that the chairs can't be lowered. On other airlines I frequently have to ask the person in front of me to keep their seat upright.

They are always the cheapest, even EasyJet doesn't compete for some reason. I prefer Ryanair over any other airline and use them whenever possible.

> On other airlines I frequently have to ask the person in front of me to keep their seat upright.

Do they ever say "No"?

> Do they ever say "No"?

Not once this far! I'm if course asking politely and explaining that I'm a bit short of leg space here.

Did you offer to subsidise the price of their ticket?

I can see a new revenue opportunity for Ryanair where they allow passengers to bid on whether a seat is/is not reclinable. This new product would permit the guy behind to block the guy in front from reclining by paying more, or the guy in front could pay more to regain this privilege.

There would be great possibilities for a real-time booking app feature and the nervous tension as the check-in window begins to close as you attempt to get one last closing bid in ...

Another marvelous opportunity to turn inconvenience for some into more profits and cheaper flights for others.

I'm afraid I didn't, and neither did I give the option to pay me for reclining. I wouldn't really know how much to ask.

I flew out of Warsaw Modlin in February this year with Ryanair - the weather outside was around -20C, and they made everyone stand outside in front of the plane, while they tagged every single piece of hand luggage to put it in the hold, because of course now you have to pay extra to bring your hand luggage on board - I couldn't feel my hands after 15 minutes of waiting.

I'd love to vow to never use them again after this, but unfortunately they are the only airline flying anywhere near where I want to be most of the time.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com