Fluree DB – A scalable blockchain database
flur.ee
flur.ee
If someone wants to claim a breakthrough it would be simpler to identify current blockchain restrictions and show how they are improved. Once this is clear we can only hope that the relatively few researchers in the field take a look to see if there are obvious inconsistencies.
[1] https://github.com/bft-smart/library
[2] http://repositorio.ul.pt/bitstream/10455/6897/1/TR-2013-07.p...
Specifically, this is useful in global health situations where you have lots of data collectors with tablets entering data that all has to eventually come together. But has lots of offline/online changes and has an untrusted data entry issue where you don’t want anything deleted.
I don't get your use-case regarding data collection people, what exactly will a blockchain prevent them from doing? Are they all entering the same piece of data to then pick the version they all input the most?
In my use case you have say 5 people covering different territory collecting info that usually doesn’t conflict. Imagine doing a census of a few villages. You don’t want data changed or altered especially time stamps and want it to be shared across all nodes when they are in proximity so they can sync to a remote instance when back in coverage. In some situations it’s literally the group meets at a tree at noon with a coordinator that syncs up all the collectors and moves on to the next group.
There are some conflicts that need to be merged, but mostly just syncing lots of nodes asynchronously and you don’t want anyone dropping records, maliciously editing them, or accidentally overwriting.
Blockchain alone doesn't prevent you from modifying data -- just rewrite the entire chain. As an example, Bitcoin only prevents this with proof of work, but only following accumulated difficulty prevents someone from thinking my privately-mined chain is true.
Especially self-hosted. If this allowed self hosted, it would be cool. Paying them seems not very useful.
Now if you were so kind to explain to me what about modern, distributed databases isn‘t „permanent“?
Permanence is the very definition of a database‘s job. If you really want to make extra sure it‘s permanent, give write-only permissions to the DB user, make backups and if you want to allow mutations, enable change data capture.
Now if there only was a way to short blockchain technology as a financial asset...
What is a more accurate term? I always used persist for writing to disk, like databases do.
With the “workaround” you describe, although a big pain in the ass for lots of nodes, still doesn’t work. How do you know that someone’s backup is correct? Or how do you verify that a remote node didn’t write/delete/sync? There’s many situations that make your idea fail that a blockchain would work.
Although, I agree that lots of “blockchain” solutions just need a decent distributed cache since you don’t care much about integrity.
If you want to have integrity control, you can use digital signatures without blockchain.
If all you're trying to fix is making it hard to issue a DELETE statement, then make it easier to set permissions. Which isn't really hard in any mainstream database...
It seems like this is a log, which might work better, although existing RDBMS already have high performance versioning/change tracking.
Of course you can use signatures as you basically start recreating blockchain at that point (eg, each transaction is signed and linked to the previous; then connected with other nodes doing the same thing. A change to any segment would be detectable, etc etc).
Basically, it is just a distributed log that removes any change for changing data and the inability to set any permissions to remove data.
Maybe I’m being dense, but please let me know of any mainstream databases that give this functionality without relying on permissions to insure integrity. If an admin is able to change data, then that won’t work in my use case.
You can copy it, filter-branch it. But if something is deleted the hash will be different.
Git.
Also, git is a blockchain.
This seems pretty crazy. But I really need a blockchain db for the permanence.
Do you really? What exactly is so permanent and who holds all the copies?
Brian Platz (https://angel.co/brian-platz) also previously founded SilkRoad Technology (not the other Silk Road), an HR management solution (among perhaps other things) ... https://www.silkroad.com/. Many institutions use Silk Road, e.g., the institution where my wife teaches, Wake Forest U ... here's their Silk Road portal: https://wakejobs.silkroad.com/WFU/Employment_Listings.html.
If I look at the encrypted data before I delete the surrogate key and can see that this data is related to a person x. That’s an identifier. Even if I do delete that afterwards I can still connect that information because I’ve seen the data before. And even if you delete something there might be enough information left to still figure out who that person was and then under the law.
The right to be erased does mean that there shouldn’t be any traces of you ever been there in the first place and the law is pretty clear about it. It’s not the weaker term “deleted”. But I guess there has to a ruling in some court before we know how they interprete this law.
- Except ours is Open Source (MIT/ZLIB/Apache2) and ranked #2 on GitHub in Blockchain and Cryptography https://github.com/topics/blockchain
- Performance benchmarks are posted publicly https://github.com/amark/gun/wiki/100000-ops-sec-in-IE6-on-2...
- It has been load tested doing 100M+ records/day for $10/total costs (CPU, disk, backup) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_WqBuEA7s8
- Explains how consensus, CRDTs, and DAGs work http://gun.js.org/distributed/matters.html
I get it, you don't like seeing Open Source (MIT/ZLIB/Apache2) posted about. But that isn't my problem, others do, and I don't profit from it. In fact, it takes a significant amount of my time to help provide free support to any the ~8K developers developers in our community. I'm not ashamed of this, nor do I think it is spam. If I was selling a service or a product, sure. But that isn't the case.
No you don't get it. I love hearing about such products - from the people who love using it so much that they feel the need to spread the word around. Submissions about project news are also great, because they can be separately up/downvoted, and don't ride on the coattails of trending submissions. That plus deceitful marketing tricks ("ranked #2 on Github" for a buzzword keyword you picked out, doesn't mean shit) is clearly spam in my book.
> and I don't profit from it
Is it not true that you run a VC-funded company that is behind gun, as you have claimed on other occasions? If it's VC-funded there probably is a profit goal in the foreseeable timeline.
> ~8K developers in our community
Stars on Github doesn't translate to community members, especially if they are gained by high-publicity actions, like posts on HN. This is meant as advice coming from someone who made the mistake of seeing them equivalent in the past. We got ~5k stars via HN for Leaf[0], and I know that only about 10-20 people tried to even use the library. Judging from the activity on the gun repo, it does look to be a little bit better, but not by much.
Can you see, at all, from the other perspective? Maybe I annoy the living daylights out of you, but can you also see how you come off as one of those cliche "hater HN commentors"?
If you had 3 worlds to choose from, one where people openly talk about their work which they give away for free to others, or a world where everybody tries to censor, silence, and hate on others for being passionate about their Open Source projects, or a world where, because everybody is so spiteful and nobody is supportive, that everybody is forced to make their software proprietary and charge for it. Which world would you want to be in?
VC funding is another indication/signal of the value I have created. And no, they don't want me to do some stupid "open core" crippleware (like some of my competitors do) or even convert the open source code from MIT/similar to a terrible AGPL/similar license. They want me to create such a core component of infrastructure that we become the defacto standard, like MySQL, Redhat, and others have become.
So no. You have no basis to hate what we are doing, except for your own frustration probably at hate others have given you. Don't pass that along, you are better than that.
> that there is a good 70 to 80 who appreciate it, get value from it, discover a new cool tool, and wind up building projects and helping out.
Then why do I always ever see you posting comments about gun, and not any of those people?
I don't argue that HN isn't a place that can also be used for self-promotion, but there is a right time and place for it: "Show HN", and when people specifically post comments seeking out something like what you are building.
There are also mechanisms in place to prevent too much self-promotion, like not being able to submit the same link twice. You know that, as you've also "cleverly" figured out how to circumvent it and submit the gun Github repo >10 times.
The link is to a self-published whitepaper, and the 'stanford.edu' affiliation is through a visiting postdoc at the Graduate School of Education (nothing CS related).
So yes, her PhD is in psychology, and she's a visiting research scientist at Stanford's School of Education.
Meanwhile, I work on the computer science side, although am not an academic (although I interact with plenty of academics, MIT, Berkeley, Stanford, and some European schools). The tech talk I linked to explains how the algorithms work (CRDTs), you don't need to be an academic to understand how it works.
The system has been used on Navy warships, as well. If you'd like to talk to the Sergeant Major who deployed the system in production in the industry, shoot me an email and I'll happily connect you. :)
Please take into account that I am respecting you for your work but this field involves more than a claim. If you look, for example, to simmetric encryption algorithms history, there were a lot of proposals and people involved in trying to crack them. Many of them sounded great but were break by professional cryptographers. The blockchain scene is full of proposals but there are very few security reviews.
We're not writing our own cryptography, lol, we're using existing libraries based around OpenSSL using industry accepted and standardized algorithms and curves (ECDSA 256, AES 256, ECDH 256, PBKDF, etc.)
So yes, please email me the moment those get broken/cracked and we'll upgrade to whatever new standards are available.
Do you have any vulnerability to report? Please send it in. Security is an always evolving process.