Hacker News Reader

LSD doesn't have CIA origins, it's effects were discovered accidentally by Albert Hoffman. The CIA later commandeered research around LSD in order to look into how it could help train military personnel and also potentially be used as a weapon (while also stopping the research that was being done on its usefulness for therapy and creative problem solving).

LSD is indeed more potent than some naturally occuring psychedelic compounds such as psilocybin, although I'm curious why you believe that being synthetic makes it more dangerous?

Having a good setting and guide can also be very helpful as well in facilitating significant and net positive experiences.

I wasn't saying the CIA was it's discoverer, but rather it is the one that pushed LSD as part of the counter-culture movement of the 60's, which included experimentation on people (often without them knowing) in mkultra/artichoke programs and more.

A quote from Timothy Leary: "I give the CIA total credit for sponsoring and initiating the entire conciousness movemenet, counter-culture events of the 1960's."

As for why synthetics are dangerous, I think there is a thesis paper waiting to happen on that. Mostly because I don't think we fully understand the effects in total of some drugs. For example, I had friends the VA was trying to put on synthetic THC... but every single one of them said it was horrible, and I came to the conclusion that THC(a/b) alone is bad and that it's the natural combination of it and the other 300+ cannabinoids, including CBD, that really show promising medical benefits.

Usually synthetic forms of any molecule are dangerous or have side effects the natural form doesn't because both the left and right-hand mirror forms of the molecule are present, in equal quantities, in the synthetic product. It's only recently that we've been able to separate and discard one form to create synthetics that are of only one-handedness. A new, better zyrtec (drug for allergies) that's come on the market in the last couple of years is one example. https://www.famousscientists.org/two-centuries-of-right-and-...

This is why synthetic perfumes are so extraordinarily dangerous for people with asthma, and cause several times as many deaths each year in Isreal as terrorism does, but natural scents are almost always fine. (It is possible to have dangerous allergic reactions to natural scents, too, causing severe edema and death, but this is far more rare.) Only tobacco is close to the same level of risk for asthmatics.

Of course, other forms of contamination are also possible, not to mention that other chemicals in the natural plant may be modifying the effect or compensating for side effects.

I'm still unconvinced that LSD itself is more dangerous than natural alternatives (which is not a direct reply to you), but this is really interesting. I had no idea that chirality had such a significant impact on how dangerous a molecule is.

From my completely inexpert perspective, and keeping in mind I've never taken any psychedelics, I'd guess that 'ego-busting' as you call it is almost certainly the component of value here. Our traditional notions of self are ridiculously naive and very poorly model reality, and I think working from poor models of reality is part of why we suffer like we do, which leads us to being worse people. Psychedelics allow people to more easily shift their perspective and see the world differently, hopefully expanding their conception of it and enlightening their understanding of their place within it, but they are not the only way to do that.

Psychedelic chemicals don't speak narrative; the answer is far more boring of a story than "ego-busting". In my non-expert opinion, it's something roughly like this:

People have a surprising amount of path-dependence to their personality and behavior. That's like, the entire point of childhood - to figure out what kind of person you are, what kind of society you're in, and how to live up to expectation. These experiences will crystallize people's patterns of thought.

How psychedelics broadly work is they shake up people's typical thought patterns and make them experience new ones. Not better ones, not necessarily "ego-busting", just new. This lets people shake things up and clear out some over-adaptation. As a bonus model prediction: since the average thought pattern is adaptive, "too much" is bad for people as it makes them under-adapted for the world they inhabit.

> Psychedelics allow people to more easily shift their perspective

This is a fairly accurate summary, from my personal experience.

Psychedelics help to partially peel back the immense layers of mental models and perspectives that we slowly build up over the many years of our life. These layers are usually fairly inscrutable -- most people don't think about them much. As the mental model of one's self is perhaps the most deeply rooted of them all, this process is how "ego death" occurs.

It is possible to gain some insight into our deeply rooted mental structures through years of careful self-observation and/or meditation, but psychedelics are an incredibly powerful tool for getting a different view of your own mind in single day (integrating the experience takes much longer).

I should say, though, due to the sheer power and novelty of the experience, it can feel as if the most simple thought is deeply profund -- so this is something one has to watch out for, if they care about genuine insight.

Warning: Psychedelics should be used with great caution -- they are not toys, and can cause significant harm if used improperly or under the wrong conditions.

> it can feel as if the most simple thought is deeply profund -- so this is something one has to watch out for, if they care about genuine insight.

Maybe I've gone off the deep end, but I think a lot of the deepest and most meaningful truths I've realized are actually tautological. It's as though it's all just one giant circle, you start with a simple tautological statement like "it is what it is" and think it's silly, spend years thinking about, observing, and modeling reality, and come to the profound conclusion that it is indeed what it is. The only difference is that having walked the circle and observed the statement from all sides you finally understand what it means.

I'm starting to wonder if all truths aren't tautologies. Take evolution: in very simple form it could be stated as "Things that self-replicate self-replicate. Things that are better at it are better at it".

Please note that LSD is one of the most academically researched drugs and we understand its effects on human body really well. Moreover, general consensus is that is it a "safe" drug. I know this is a cliche anology, but something like alcohol is not even remotely as safe as LSD but majority of the world, including me, and even supposedly "rational" people drink it quiete often. Also there is nothing that makes LSD inherently more dangerous because it is synthetic.

I have been to many Ayahuasca ceremonies. As you stated, it helps break down the ego mind's control. It is definitely important that there is a shaman, and the best is to hear through word of mouth of someone having a positive experience with a particular shaman. The shaman holds the space during the ceremony, much like how a yoga instructor holds the space for a yoga class - there is variation based on what that instructor brings experience wise, their own energy, etc.

Re: Ego - Ego is a tool, however it often gets stuck on acting as a coping mechanism. If ego's stuck on then it causes other problems of the body/brain/mind. It should act like subpersonalities, where there is a time to be a caretaker, a perfectionist, etc - however it becomes a problem if a subpersonality becomes dominant, like it becomes a problem if ego becomes dominant.

I have been going through a difficult journey, as was unknown to me beforehand, it turns out that my ego helped protect me and allow me to function by separating me from feeling/reacting to pain from a childhood injury. This disconnect from pain, improper perception of pain, allowed me to injure myself throughout the rest of my life - and then I was gradually exposed to it more and more, until a point where my ego no longer had enough control to allow me to cope through all of the pain.

I have had success healing some of the injuries with stem cell injections, however have run into incompetence that's built into our health-"care" system. I'll be posting about it longer at some point, soon I imagine. I struggle a lot daily.

>Those who approach these powerful things recreationally are the most likely to have bad trips.

I only take LSD recreationally and I don't have bad trips. Maybe don't comment on psychs when you clearly have almost zero experience.