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Comment by lajhsdfkl | Hacker News Reader

>That being said, with all the problems the F-35 has, much like the Eurofighter before it, it might be no match for what another advanced economy could produce.

Given that the F-35 was built with the latest tech that no other advanced economy even has I have no idea how anything could be built in the next 10-15 years that will significantly outclass it.

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In a "real" war, it's not a question of which airplane would win in a duel, but which airplaine + crew is more cost effective at destroying the other.

Could F-35s take on 10x their number of F-16s? The answer is not obviously yes to me, particularly in light of the Yugoslavian kill against an F-117a.

Only from long range where the F-35 was able to remain undetected and able to bug out after firing. It wouldn't stand a chance against a single F-16 in a dogfight.

Not necessarily true. The F-16 can't lock on with AMRAAM, so it would have to rely on 9X Sidewinders, which might not be able to lock on via IR depending on the initial engagement. The F-35 does have some IR masking (not as much as the F-22), and it will have the 9X Sidewinders as well.

And F-35 test pilots have continually said that the ACM performance is underrated. Sure a "clean" F-16 might be able to outmaneuver an F-35, but F-16's don't fly clean. All their shit hangs off their pylons, and cause drag etc. So it's not clear who would win. If you factor in all the sensors the F-35 has, and the fact that it will almost always get first shot on the Falcon, it's no contest. In Red Flag etc, the F-35 has dominated the F-16.

I've been trying to find out exactly what the F-35 did during Red Flag 2017 and it's all very nebulous. I also wasn't able to find any proof that the F-35 dominated the F-16 or whether it even engaged F-16's in dogfights. When the F-16 dominated the F-35 in dogfights the excuse was that the pilots were flying the F-35 like a traditional fighter and that the software wasn't allowing them to have complete control of the plane. If these factors were indeed the issue then it would be nice to see a rematch to validate these conclusions. However, I doubt we'll ever see a rematch in public between these 2 planes ever again.

It's important to remember that Red Flag etc aren't designed to validate one platform against another, but to give a holistic exercise. There are a wide array of scenarios performed at RF, where different sides have different advantages. I take claims from Cope India, RF, etc etc with a grain of salt.

However, despite the media continually looking for fodder for "military waste," the consensus I've heard is that the F-35 dominates 4th gen fighters. How it will fair against the likes of the J-20/J-31/Su-57 remains to be seen. All of them have issues; and it's not as if the fights will be 1v1.

> F-35 was built with the latest tech that no other advanced economy even has

This might be true about F-22 (or not), but F-35 does not have much of latest tech as countries are suspicious of sharing cutting edge military tech on a multinational project.

The Russian development model has been better, with orders to India paying the bills. They started around twenty years ago on the kit they flaunted in Syria. I see no reason why this development model cannot win. We have pork barrel.

Doesn't the article discuss how it's already been outclasses in real world tests by existing jets like the F-16?

Capabilities on paper are useless if they don't deliver in real world usage.

It lost to the F-16 in a dogfight. Dogfights are not relevant in modern warfare and were not the consideration in the F-35s design (as is readily obvious).

When you have missiles traveling at speeds exceeding Mach 2 whether you can win in a dogfight is irrelevant, what is relevant is who sees who first.

The problem for the F-35 is that all that advanced tech is not working properly and may never work as well as originally imagined. Meanwhile, adversaries already have aircraft that are faster, have longer range, and are more maneuverable, not to mention air defense networks.

As long as the F-35's principal advantage of being somewhat stealthy holds up it will be fine against opposing air forces and AAD's. But if that advantage is sufficiently whittled away it could find itself outgunned and outclassed.

> ... I have no idea how anything could be built in the next 10-15 years that will significantly outclass it.

Outclass it at what though? Dogfighting? Bombing? Ground support?

The problem is that it will be outclassed in any single role by a much cheaper aircraft dedicated to that role.

Being expensive.

> What is the Spanish Armada?

Maybe outclassing is only necessary when people fight under the most ideal and conventional of conditions.

False equivalence. The Spanish Armada was massive in scale but there was not an exponential difference in capability against the British Armada as there is with US aviation technology and the rest of the world.

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