Sweden’s violent reality is undoing a peaceful self-image | Hacker News Reader

Sweden’s violent reality is undoing a peaceful self-image

politico.eu

43 pointskushti53 comments

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https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/polisen-43-personer-skots...

43 people were shot in Sweden in 2017, in a country of almost 10 million.

That's 0.43 / 100K.

The US gun homicide rate in 2016 was 4.62 / 100K.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-r...

Chicago had 650 homicides in 2017, down from 762 in 2016, with a population of 2.7 million.

http://www.blacknews.com/news/chicago-sees-drop-in-violence-...

Just to put things into perspective.

That’s 43 (41) dead, there have been 135 injured and 41 dead with 306 shooting incidents according to https://www.thelocal.se/20171222/in-figures-2017s-shootings-...

While this isn’t “impressive” by US standards it is an oddity by Western European ones.

Every western country looks better than the US when it comes to gun violence. Not sure your stats get you that far.

It's obvious there is a increasing crime problem in Sweden.

Don't you think looking at only gun homicide is a bit restrictive? Their violent crime rate is definitely going up[0], which is strange because afaik most violent crime around the world is going down.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Sweden#/media/File:Sw...

Not only that, the violence is largely concentrated in a number of areas where the homicide rate is markedly higher. Both the number of these areas as well as their size are increasing, as does the intensity of the violence.

Possibly the biggest problem in Sweden is that it is still taboo to discuss the facts around this increased crime rate, even though those facts are well known and have been confirmed many times. As long as this taboo persists it will be impossible for Sweden to do anything about these problems as any action which goes counter the narrative of those who prefer to look away will be branded: racist, xenophobe, islamophobe, 'against our ethical foundation'[1], hostile to strangers ('främlingsfientligt').

Good examples of this can be seen in the recent spat at KTH (a technical university) where a student was about to be sacked because he'd made a document summarising the results of different studies on the subject of the relationship between rising crime and the number of immigrants from the Middle-East and Africa. The document itself did nothing more than summarise the results of these studies but this was deemed unacceptable because it was said to violate the institute's 'värdegrund'[1]. KTH directly violated the Swedish constitution which guarantees freedom of expression [2] but it was only when the subject was taken up in several alternative media that KTH backed down. Regular Swedish media did not publish anything on this subject until much later.

A similar case just surfaced where a school rector actually reported some students to the security police (SÄPO) and regular police for publishing a similar document, again just a summary of conclusions of official reports [3]. It is highly unlikely that the police will do anything, let alone the security police but the mere fact that publishing statistics can be ground for removal from an institution or reporting to the authorities shows how deep the taboo goes in certain areas.

[1] The Swedish concept of 'värdegrund' and 'allas lika värde', a form of non-religious dogma which trumps law and common sense in that violating it directly raises a black flag. It can be summed up as 'moral relativism'.

[2] http://academicrightswatch.se/?p=3226

[3] http://www.friatider.se/gymnasieungdomar-skrev-faktablad-om-...

You're referencing two far right extremist sites as source...

Sigh, it is almost as if you're trying to prove my point by putting a label on something and thereby banishing it.

Fria Tider is not "far right extremist", not even in the context of Sweden. In Sweden they'd be "right-wing" or "liberal", in the US they'd be center/liberal. Academic Rights watch is just that, a site which calls attention to trends in academia to limit freedom of expression. Since those who try to limit freedom of expression are on the left side of the political spectrum you'll find many stories of these issues from people who are not on that side.

Nordfront is "far right". I did not refer to Nordfront. But¸ if Nordfront had something interesting to say I'd refer to them as it is the message which counts, not the messenger.

Hahaha really HN? As a Swede this is so ridiculous, I don't think the author has any idea what they're talking about and have done no fact-checking at all. They even contradict themselves.

> drop in homicides has been, however, far smaller in Sweden than in neighboring countries

So there's been a drop in homicides

> Shootings in the country have become so common

But shootings have _become_ so common? So they're just missing more or what?

What a ridiculous article, I guess HN is the new Fox news.

HN is a link aggregator and this link will probably be flagged off the front page in less than ten minutes, I’d direct ire at Politico in this case.

edit less than 1 minute apparently!

Politico, Economist, The Spectstor all have simmilar articles with the same statistics either they are all “fake news” or something is going on.

They are being baited by someone trying to push a narrative. Sweden has been used as an example in Hungary, by Trump etc.

Well on a personal note I have had a few closed calls in Malmo and I know 17 people who left mostly to Denmark, Israel and the US.

I don’t know about the rest of Sweden but Malmo isn’t a place I want to be caught in, East London isn’t a walk in the park either.

> something is going on

It's election year..

The problem is that you can pull articles from early 2017 that show the same thing just talking about 2016, while every year seems to be an election year in some places it doesn't really seem to be a made up story.

I don't really understand the "counter arguments" presented here are the statistics wrong? because these seems to be official statistics reported by all Swedish media and produced by the Swedish government.

If you are talking about https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/02/violent-crime-in-sweden-...

It was written by the same person as this story and is time stamped about a month before the Economist piece (they anon). But the articles don't particularly seem to be independent phenomena.

It seems to be the same journalist (this isn't that uncommon) but she doesn't appear to be the swedish Alex Jones either..

https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paulina_Neuding

The LocalSE (linked above you can search for more by yourself I've had people mention to me that it apparently is a neonazi site but i'm pretty sure were to the left of Corbyn so make up your own mind) and Radio Sweden (which is Sweden's official broadcaster) all have the same stories.

http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=2054&art...

(these are the 3 first results retrieved by searching "radio sweden shootings" (without quotes) on Google.co.uk in incognito mode. YRMV)

Sveriges Radio is essentially Swedish NPR or the BBC (pre television) so I have very high doubts that is pushes some highly contentious political agenda....

I'm aware it isn't uncommon, it's just less remarkable that a couple outfits would carry opinion pieces by the same person than it might be if they were opinion pieces by different people.

And that's the part of the article people are responding to, the opinion, the stuff that isn't in the Sveriges text, about how Sweden should be afraid of what it has done to itself. The Sveriges piece does mention that the homicide rate is still lower than Finland...

Homicides in total yes, but they also disclose that the gun violence is higher than it's neighbours.

"We have a big problem with gang-related violence" http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=2054&art...

And based on these numbers http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=2054&art... it seems that from 2014 to 2017 the number of shootings increased by about 50%, and the number of fatalities have also increased considerably.

And while I don't think that Sweden is as dangerous as Mexico or even the US I do think there is a growing problem there and what scares me even more is the response you often get which what the GP posted above is the most "vanilla" version of it, he or she simply dismissed it and asked if HN is becoming Fox News more often than not you'll simply be stamped as a "trump supporter/nazi/alt-righter" regardless of the context by simply trying to discuss the issue.

The last Jewish friend of mine that lived Malmo left in February this year with her family to Denmark the cause was this: http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=96&artik...

A "demonstration" with 200-300 people proclaiming that they will go and kill Jews and reminding them that the army of Muhammed is returning.

And as far as I know not a single arrest has been made despite the event being promoted on social media and live footage of it available.

306 shootings in 2017 that seems quite a lot compared to W.EU.

https://www.thelocal.se/20171222/in-figures-2017s-shootings-...

A previous decrease in homicides since the 90's. Shootings increasing the last few years. Not contradictory at all.

I'm hesitant to comment on this because I expect to have my viewpoints be misrepresented as racist, but it seems difficult to integrate immigrants into society who fundamentally oppose core principles of progressive, western democracies.

we need to start dropping the term western when describing certain democratic model or ideals

i am not denying, or trying to take away credit, that some western countries adopted those ideals first

but not all the west agrees that those ideals are, which makes is hard to exactly identify what one is referring to when the term western is used

also, it gives ownership of those ideals to specifics countries and geographic locations, which adds a needless aspect of nationalism to some ideals that should not be linked to nationalism

We need to stop calling Chinese food, Chinese, it's just food, man... Stop all the 'Appropriation' & 'Racism' & 'Nationalism' ™

I want the world to be more like the propaganda i was force fed throughout all my 'education,' it's draggin' me down man.

Also, no more capitalization or punctuation. Damn the consequences!

i mean

damn the consequences

Spacesareaformofpunctuationaretheynot

it seems difficult to integrate immigrants into society who fundamentally oppose core principles of progressive, western democracies.

It's difficult, but spanning as great a gulf in societal integration has been done.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHr9GRgRw_M

_as great a gulf in societal integration_

It doesn't seem that cultural differences between Catholics and Protestants were that big. Economic ones, true. But those two big branches were one for 1500 years. I may be missing something here.

It doesn't seem that cultural differences between Catholics and Protestants were that big. Economic ones, true.

Urban areas where police wouldn't go unless in groups. Terrorist/criminal organizations which administered their own law, judgements, and punishments. Political corruption. Seen by many as completely non-hire-able. The cultural gap wasn't religiously comprised, but the gulf was about as large. There was even also talk of the religious dogma of the immigrant group being incompatible with national sovereignty.

This does not reflect at all with my own experience living in both south of Sweden and in Stockholm. Feels like misinformation in order to spread FUD about Sweden.

Sixteen grenade (grenade!) attacks in 2017. Three more this year. In a country of just under 10M.

There is even its own Wikipedia page on it! [1] I wouldn't say that's FUD.

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_grenade_attacks_in_Swe...

the guns criminals use are from the war in jugoslavia. At some point someone smuggled a crate of grenades to Sweden. The rest is history. You might argue that had “normal” guns been easier to aquire, gangsters wouldn’t have to use weapons of war, at least not that stupid weapons (because hand grenades have very very little practical use to a criminal other than sending a message). I don’t buy the idea that weapons should be easier to aquire - so I’d wish for stricter border control for weapons smuggling (there is effectively none within the EU).

This Economist article raises similar points https://www.economist.com/news/europe/21738389-young-men-kal...

I hear people talk about how they would never move to the US because of how violent it is. And yet the reality of living in the US middle class is that violence almost never affects you or the areas you frequent. Most shootings in the US are between criminals, and happen in high crime areas that are geographically small in comparison to the entire country.

I'm guessing this is similar in Sweden. It sounds like specific areas have increasing violence, and that this looks even worse, given the country's historical low rates of violence.

> I'm guessing this is similar in Sweden. It sounds like specific areas have increasing violence, and that this looks even worse, given the country's historical low rates of violence.

No, Swedish violence has been accelerating past what even Americans would consider acceptable. Unless there's been a spat of grenade attacks in the US that the media hasn't been covering.

http://www.informationliberation.com/files/grenade-attacks-s...

PS: That number is even higher for 2017 and 2018.

It's an interesting genre, and one that the author's sadly been in for a while now. This is just the latest international example. On last week's Kvartal podcast (Veckopanelen) she tried to coax an outspoken police officer panelist into warning of increased violence from failed asylum seekers. He disagreed, and harrumphed and resorted to talking about two famously brutal cases instead. We'll likely be seeing more instances of this article.

I am Swedish. Everything in this story is true.

What "experience"? Sweden is segregated -- I'm pretty sure you didn't spend a lot of time in the no-go zones at night.

So you think Paulina Neuding, a well known Swedish journalist, writing for a respected publication, simply likes to spread FUD for no apparent reason? That's your theory?

Is the Swedish media being silent about these things, and hence why the other Swedes here are denying these things?

Basically everyone in Sweden more or less knows what is going on.

But there is immense social pressure not to verbalise it, and instead proclaim to live in the kind of fantasy world of the sort promoted by the destructive multikulti propaganda that has inundated the west in the past few decades.

It is frightening and sad to see people act in this way.

You can find some documentaries on youtube about it.

Edit: But yes, much of the media is silent about these things or completely misrepresents them.

also see here, https://www.google.com/search?q=sweden+cover+up

and here for accounts of Swedish absurdities from an American living in Sweden,

https://swedenreport.wordpress.com/

The police won't report on the violence for fear of being called racist, which is a crime that comes with jail time. Ditto for journalists. That is why the 1st amendment is so important. When it becomes illegal to tell the truth, nobody knows what the hell is going on.

I was born in the US, moved to Sweden last year. I live in an area of the country that seems to have been designated as a place to put migrants, and it shows.

People have different cultural expectations, and act accordingly. It's no surprise that meshing the two viewpoints is difficult. But the biggest disservice, IMO, is segregating them into their own communities. Here there is no incentive to integrate, and life continues as before--in some ways opposed to the ideals that Sweden tries to set forth.

You are what you surround yourself with. Sweden is far from multicultural, and prefers (well, kind of railroaded itself into) playing the "live and let live" card a little too ideologically without considering the long-term impacts. The one that is the most apparent to me is the way housing is handled, and how it affects not only migrants but any immigrant coming here for any purpose.

The title is a bit misleading: Shootings are up but violent crime is down. Basically, an influx of guns it would seem. We used to have barely any in circulation, but obviously they will be smuggled to where they collect the highest price (most illegal weapons are Balkan war arms as I understand it).

Good for them! They are handling their problems without going crazy reactionary, and declaring war on immigrants, the poor, drugs, etc.

That would be in line with their "Swedish Model". The article reads like a "tattle tale", as if they are trying to hide explosions! A grenade in an US police station would shake the wasp's nest all the way to the national guard.

It's precisely that "Western Democracies" crony ideology that demands the media and government react with pitch forks and blame.

Considering the grenade attacks have been going on for years, I'd say they aren't handling the problems at all.

Is Sweden's supposed failure to integrate migrants into society really a failure in a historical context? I would guess that it would take at least a generation to see the fruits of initiatives to encourage integration. Migrants are fleeing a dysfunctional and oppressive ISIS regime, but even these oppressed people harbor views that many Westerners consider regressive and authoritarian. How do you even approach this problem?

I think one just accepts that people’s views change slowly or not at all. So you accept that change is slow, some times only generational.

Is it a problem worth solving?

A native Swede bigot thinks “I hate all non-straight people.” and a normal Swede thinks “I really wish we could get rid of bigots like that dude. Too bad we can’t deport jerks.”

An immigrant thinks the same thing as the bigot and the same normal Swede thinks “We need to help these people, how do we take in more of them?”

Seems foolish to me. Being oppressed in their homeland doesn’t make them intrinsically “good” people.

I would guess that it would take at least a generation to see the fruits of initiatives to encourage integration.

We are decades into this horrible experiment gone awry in much of western Europe. The second and third generations are integrating to a lesser extent than their parents in part due to rising numbers of their compatriots and their inherently anti-integration ideology. Much of the Islamic violence is carried out by second and third generations.

There are about 3 million Turks in Germany stemming from a Gastarbeiter (guest worker) program starting in the 50s and 60s, being "guest workers," the idea was they would return to Turkey, most never did and today still live in their own neighborhoods and enclaves largely separate from the rest of Germany.

Regarding this history and other problems, Angela Merkel herself said what everyone can see, https://www.google.com/search?q=merkel+multiculturalism+fail...

The Nordic states have been some of the biggest winners in the world from globalization over the past 30 years. They've been safely protected by NATO, and free to sell their oil to anyone in the world. Now the world comes knocking and you want to cry foul? Either accept the rough and tumble, multicultural, imperfect world that we live in with open arms as we have in the US, or wall yourself off and don't expect any of the benefits.

I don’t understand why participating in global trade and accepting thousands of immigrants who oppose the principles of your society have to go hand to hand.

> free to sell their oil

Sweden doesn't have any oil to sell. We're also not crying foul about the increase in shootings as if the rest of the world is to blame. There is definitely a problem here in regards to the shootings, but it's also election year and some parties have a bigger interest than others in portraying Sweden as a lawless country.

This seems awfully skewed. Not sure it belongs here

TRUMP WAS RIGHT ALL ALONG

..or was he?

No seriously tho, at this point I legit can't understand anymore if this is fake news or not. Crime rate is not supposed to be subjective is it?

Good job us!

Well, the homicide rate in Sweden is considerably lower than the rate in the US.

So I guess you have to start by deciding what Trump meant to begin with. Did he mean that Sweden was crazy for doing something that made their rate of homicide decrease more slowly than similar neighboring countries, or was he just fear mongering by shouting about something that had been in the media?

Crime rate is not supposed to be subjective is it?

Welcome to clown world.

https://www.google.com/search?q=sweden+cover+up

https://www.google.com/search?q=sweden+white+pixelation

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