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Comment by cromwellian | Hacker News Reader

I think Apple obsesses too much about secrecy and attributes too much of it to its success. Except for the iPhone launch, almost nothing they've launched hasn't been leaked ahead of time, and yet, it is still the most valuable company in the world and their sales are through the roof.

It seems they are still pining for that "shock-and-awe" of Steve Jobs original 2007 iPhone introduction, but don't realize that's no why people buy Apple products these days.

Think of the negative repercussions of this. Creating a hermit kingdom, with chilling effects where people worry about collaboration with the outside world. It has certainly had some effect on the ability to recruit AI researchers.

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There's a huge advantage in your competitors not knowing what your focus is, particularly if you're working on something out of left fields.

The more you can hide from them, the more of a head start you can have over them.

Does Apple have a head start on most things they do? Most observers acknowledge they aren't usually the first to do something, rather, they're good at execution and polish. They were beaten to market on pretty much everything: watches, bezelless displays with notch (e.g. Essential Phone), smart/speakers (Amazon, Google, Sonos), Streaming/TV (Roku, Amazon, Chromecast), etc.

Really, I think the world would be better if they published more openly and were more open, and I don't think it would really hurt their ability to outsell their competitors at all. Let's say they're working on AR glasses (which they probably are) and Samsung catches wind of this and rushes to market with Samsung AR glasses. How many Apple fans actually think this will make a difference to people in the Apple ecosystem buying Apple AR glasses?

At this point I think the secrecy does more harm than good.

Maybe there's zero business value in keeping secrets (I don't believe that at all), but even if that were the case and Apple were just overly obsessed with "the prestige" [1][2], why would that change anything? They should be free to operate the company in anyway they want. Apple's a 40 year old business and everyone knows their culture. Employees know what they're signing up for (and I think their first day is an orientation about this topic specifically).

[1] https://youtu.be/gZY1mB9m9b0?t=19s

[2] https://techcrunch.com/2012/09/13/the-iphone-5-event/

TouchID and FaceID come to mind.

Both of those were on other phones before Apple did it.

Which phone had actually usable/secure fingerprint auth before the iPhone?

The fingerprint sensor made by Authentec, was the centerpiece of a Motorola Moto X1 and slated to be in Google's Nexus 6 before Apple bought their supplier, effectively preventing the release. That's why those devices were released with a dimple where the fingerprint sensor was going to be, even though there was nothing in that spot where the finger rests.

That is to say, TouchID capacitive fingerprint scanning was going to be shipped in Android first and Apple delayed the market introduction with a strategic acquisition.

Prior devices like the Motorola Atrix and Toshiba G500 also had fingerprint biometrics.

I did say "usable" though, and the fingerprint sensors before the iPhone were not.

I would know, I had the same style fingerprint sensor that you see on the Atrix or the G500 on my laptop, and it was terrible.

Wow, I didn't know this story, thanks!

Source?

Literally the only Google results for a search regarding Authentic and the Moto X1 is this thread and your comment.

I found a lot, here's one: https://9to5mac.com/2015/01/26/nexus-6/

Are the Moto X1 and the Nexus the same phone? The parent comment seemed to suggest that they were 2 different phones. Even in that case, what Apple released was slightly different from what AuthenTec had created at the time so I don't see how anyone can say that Touch ID was out before Apple brought it to market.

And other people made smartphones before Apple did. The details and the secrecy thereof matter far, far more than the features themselves.

The technology used on both of those was not on other phones before Apple did it. "Face recognition" and "fingerprint scanning" are not the same thing as "Face ID" and "Touch ID".

If they told the world that the solution for touch screen phones failing in the market was this little idea called the “proximity sensor”, Google would have beaten them to the market with Android and the iPhone would be far less successful.

Apples success is built on unique inventions, in design, software and hardware. They rarely are first to market in any category. They are almost always first to market with the first mass market useful combination of features in those categories.

Except that wasn't at all what Android was when the iPhone was released. Android was still a Blackberry clone at that period in time due, in part, to the secrecy surrounding the technology in the iPhone.

> It has certainly had some effect on the ability to recruit AI researchers.

Well, Apple had to backtrack there and allow its researchers to publish because otherwise nobody would work there.

To be fair, Google and Microsoft are also quite secretive about their products.

everyone copies apple's designs (not the rest, thankfully). they would rather people copy products that are already out at least

No, everyone is accused of copying Apple, and Apple gets a pass when they come out with something that other companies already did. But the least similarity to anything Apple does is often labeled a copy, sometimes even requiring time-travel as the supposed copy was released first.

Take for example the idea that other companies copied Apple's thin bezels. The predecessors for that were the Sharp Aquous, Xiaomi Mix, Samsung Galaxy S8, and Essential Phone. Samsung even had "True Tone" long before Apple started marketing it, but were accused of copying it.

I favor Kirby Ferguson's take on this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq5D43qAsVg), and we are better served by companies taking designs from others and improving on them, and open publishing and sharing, and the incessant cry of "Redmond Start Your Copiers" is really wearing thin.

Great video, thanks! Interesting how people are ok with copying others but hate to be copied (in part 4 of the video series). I never really thought about this issue the way that author presented it.

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