Global cyber attack that left U.S. flag on screens | Hacker News Reader

Global cyber attack that left U.S. flag on screens

reuters.com

76 pointssilveira100 comments

"Some 55,000 devices were affected in the United States and 14,000 in China, and Iran's share of affected devices was 2 percent," Azari-Jahromi was quoted as saying.

Pretty misleading headline.

OK, we've taken Iran out of the headline above.

All: this thread is an unsalvageable trainwreck. If you want to recite low-substance talking points or smack each other over the head with political and national insults, please do it somewhere else. Posting that way here will eventually get your account penalized and/or banned; it's not in the least what this site is for.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

There is more (and better) information over on Slashdot, which had the story earlier today: https://it.slashdot.org/story/18/04/07/2312200/vigilante-hac...

Motherboard was able to make contact with the purported attackers.

This doesn't carry any of the typical fingerprints of a state-level attack. It was a single exploit against Cisco devices, combined with Shodan for an easy directory of vulnerable devices.

Given the recent surge in nationalistic sentiment among young people in the tech community in the last decade, it looks reasonable to stick with the simplest explanation here: one or more folks found a flaw and exploited it for fun and attached a flag to it for more fun.

There are situations for which "Russia did it" is an explanation that makes sense. I don't think this is one of them.

We should also beware of being too willing to jump to conclusions that anything was done by America's enemy-du-jour; the country's been down that road plenty of times before and it never goes anywhere good.

If it wasn't done by the US government this is terrorism pure and simple, going by what the people in your source said:

>"We were tired of attacks from government-backed hackers on the United States and other countries," someone in control of an email address left in the note told Motherboard Saturday... "We simply wanted to send a message...." In addition to disabling the equipment, the hackers left a note on affected machines, according to screenshots and photographs shared on social media: "Don't mess with our elections," along with an image of an American flag...

i didn’t know there were people who thought iran rigged the election? are we off russia now? people know trump hates iran right?

Iran's gov, not it's people. The US faction in power in 1953 disposed Mossadegh, allowing a worse power structure to take hold. Pretty standard order out of chaos thing. Looking up old pics of Iran is interesting. Eisenhower knew he got played and left with a important warning about what we now call the deep state.

Mossadeq was no democrat.

> If it wasn't done by the US government this is terrorism

Why would the situation be different if it turns out it was US government?

It would be an act of war.

Acts of terrorism (other than top-down state terrorism) are usually acts of war whoever the perpetrator is.

> If it wasn't done by the US government this is terrorism pure and simple

Whether it is terrorism is an orthogonal issue to whether it was done by the US Government.

> terrorism pure and simple,

That word really has lost all meaning.

I imagine you think spam is pretty terrifying too?

Most of the US political class seems to.

That's why we're having the whole Trump/Russia investigation after all.

Terrorism doesn’t happen over computers. This is simply a large inconvenience.

What do you believe defines terrorism?

The only reliable APT fingerprints I can think of are things that are hard, like forging real certs, SCADA malware targeting specific hardware, jumping airgaps, coordinated friendly media pushes for cover, etc. The "Russia did it thing" was pretty funny to watch. Very convenient way to not talk about the contents. It's well known where _that_ data came from, the xfer rates (among practical admissions elsewhere) support it. William Binney has it right as usual.

Your activity here looks exactly like "friendly media push for cover".

I'm about as open book as it gets. Commenting with my real name. I'm more than happy with my positions, if there's something inconsistent, maybe you should point that out instead of implying I'm a shill.

> Given the recent surge in nationalistic sentiment among young people in the tech community in the last decade

What?

I was alluding to this for instance: https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/03/silicon-valley-...

I'm a little embarrassed to reference that particular article, but it should provide enough search term fertilizer for you to find other articles on the subject if you're interested.

Thanks

>young people

You mean young white males, right?

It is interesting that in the message left by hackers [1] American flag is pictured incorrectly: there are too many stars.

[1] https://cdn.i24news.tv/upload/image/9d8a60d8155d08ddbfe86542...

Classic Russian blunder again.

Is somebody trying to contact american time travelers in Iran?

67 stars?

Thus is literally a False Flag event.

I found that if you google for "usa flag ascii" then this is the first result [1]. So probably hackers just copied it from that page.

[1] http://chris.com/ascii/index.php?art=objects/flags

Haha, it’s so much more interesting if we pretend 67 has something to do with the occult though...

This is reminiscent of the infamous Osama bin Laden posters that inadvertently used an image from the Bert is Evil! website:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bert_is_Evil

Does anyone really believe this was done by a pro-US entity (or the US itself)? This would only strain relations more than they already are, and I wonder effect this would have in Syria where the US is leaving and Iran/Russia still have a large interest in what happens in the area. It's always interesting to think about the 2nd or 3rd level effects that whoever did this was aiming for

I'm not sure that the administration bringing in John Bolton and making it really clear they want to tear up the Iran deal would necessarily consider it negative to strain relations with Iran.

>I'm not sure that the administration

He specified: "pro-US entity."

> Does anyone really believe this was done by a pro-US entity

I blame the Russians /s

It sounds like it wasn't a particularly sophisticated attack, so I'm quite willing to believe it was by a pro-US individual who doesn't particularly care about the subtleties of the geopolitics. That said, this is hardly going to move the needle when there are real events like Trump threatening to reintroduce sanctions.

I believe the title is clickbatey. The article clearly states that only 2% of affected devices were in Iran, while the Lion's share was in the US. Could someone fix this?

We took the reference to Iran out of the title.

Given the USA nearly always operates with secrecy [no matter what agenda or party has traditionally been in power], I'll go with false flag operation. There are a lot of entities that would benefit from this that aren't the USA, like the incumbent government. I'm curious to hear other opinions, especially any that disagree with my initial assumptions.

Probably not even false flag, it’d be more subtle. Likely they want to muddle the pot for those trying to accuse Russians.

I can see that people on HN blame other countries easily without any real evidence...

This sort of reaction isn't specific to HN, unfortunately (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/08/08/ameri...) or even America (http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-43385677). It's a vulnerability in human tribal psychology that other folks have been exploiting for political purposes for centuries.

Even though the bug report is thousands of years old now, there's still no patch available. Some people think this means the maintainer has abandoned the project.

I know that. I mean that I love HN mostly for smart comments. Sometimes I don't read an article, I read its comments. :) But blaming without evidence is not that kind of comments.

To me, this feels like a move to distract the target(s). If it is so it makes sense for both the US to be responsible (knowing such an obvious reference will be interpreted as originating from someone else. e.g. Russia) and also for its enemies (well, they want to draw attention).

"But sir, everyone will notice", said the operator, hesitating. "Use one of your tricks, I don't care", replied the commander. "Just get it done!".

"Mike, do you still have that script, the one with the American flag?" the first man whispered.

Anybody who's actually investigating this will not consider that a useful clue in either direction. It's easy to take it to ridiculous dimensions from "Go USA!!1" to "Now they'll think it was the USA" to "Now they'll think someone's framing the USA."

It's just not helpful digital evidence in any way because it was clearly intended to be seen in a world where you cover your tracks as much as you can.

Attribution ain't easy.

In the end it comes down signalling. Who did it is somewhat irrelevant in this regard.

There is a silent war going on right now in a new domain, managing public perception of war is always necessary,regardless of country.

"cyber code"

Gotta love stock "hacker" photos

False Flag seems a little on the nose here...

If there is anything we have learned from the Russian meddling with our elections is that they are masters of counter-intelligence. I am willing to wager 100% these attacks were not by pro-US organizations. They just want the media to report it as pro-US, which hook-line-and-sinker they did. Please don't be fooled.

I bet they're no fools either. But like all media, they are happy to report a narrative that generates views (if private), or fits their goals (if state owned).

But that is precisely the problem. Because their businesses is failing, they report things that are false but generate page-views and the outraged and less informed eat it up.

Did you read the article? They didn't report it as pro-US.

I mean, if I'm being asked to believe that they swung the election to Donald Trump with $100k in Facebook ads and a group about dogs I guess I'd have to believe they're geniuses. But I am pretty skeptical. The evidence for the attribution of DNC hacks seems quite weak too (and at worst it involves the genius maneuver of making public what Hillary Clinton's campaign actually said and thought).

> if I'm being asked to believe that they swung the election to Donald Trump with $100k in Facebook ads and a group about dogs

I'm not sure anyone's asking that. The social media results were not about ads bought. The issue was about accounts pumping specific content which was then reshared by actual voters. (and official news outlets) Those accounts were happily switching between being really interested in US, then French elections, then Brexit, with some middle east commentary in between. There's lots of research about them a few google queries away.

You left out Bernie rallies and BLM.

>evidence for the attribution of DNC hacks seems quite weak too

I guess you know more than the CIA

Yes, because the CIA would never lie to us, right?

They would never poison a Russian ex-spy to make Putin look bad?

I don't think this attack was orchestrated by a US entity. Or Russian for that matter. But when an entity that's hell-bent on controlling the worlds information gives a blanket statement about something without proof, I can only assume it's a lie.

I take the CIA's word, which is part of our own government, over the word of individuals who seek harm to American interests.

It's easy to find information on bad things the CIA did [1], "minor" things of note including classic hits like "imposing a dictatorship in Iran, leading to an Islamic fundamentalist revolution and thus creating a powerful enemy against the US where there wasn't one before" and "trafficking drugs into the US and greatly amplifying America's drug problems", but looking for times where they actually did good for the country leaves me with little if anything.

The CIA's actions aren't done in national defense. They're a subversive organization. The fact the CIA suddenly shifted from being a shadowy government organization that people pretty much only knew about through action movies to being "open" about their ongoing activities within these past few years raises some red flags. Looking at the CIA's history, it's incredible that anyone would sit there and think they're trustworthy. I encounter people trying to say "well that's in the past" pretty often, which is a silly position to take, because why would they have any reason to stop?

[1]https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2016/12/2...

I just read Shah of Shahs and I think it was a great little introduction to modern Iran and where the deep-seated resentment of the United States in Iran comes from.

Based on the information that has been presented to the public the case looks quite weak. For reasons I think should be obvious, I'm not willing to simply take the CIA's conclusions on the assumption that they have some secret evidence I haven't seen.

I take the CIA at their word because the alternatives are even more absurd.

Why would it be "absurd" for it to be anyone other than Russian intelligence?

The other "theory" is the idea that the Clintons had Seth Rich killed or that it was another "insider" "mad about Bernie" even though he lost by several million votes.

So yes, it is absurd.

I don't find the insider risk idea hard to believe. The primary stuff is still an open wound, and you could also easily imagine someone disgruntled for more prosaic reasons (e.g., passed over for a promotion). The fact is we have very little evidence for any of these ideas, and I, for one, don't find it reasonable to conclude that it is therefore obviously the fault of the Russians, especially given how unhinged and paranoid rhetoric about Russia has gotten.

You are ignoring a massive, expensive IRA operation in attempt to mislead for which multiple Russians were indicted because of what appears to be personal political bias.

Or is your belief a lifelong Republican is indicting people for lulz?

I don’t think anyone would actually believe a US-affiliated organization would do this. It’s not their style. (unless you count some pro-US hacker/group doing it for the lulz)

But maybe that’s what they want us to think, and it’s actually counter-counterintelligence to make it look like an independent hacker/group...

Masterful is a bit strong. From the evidence I've seen I would say they are more like opportunists

If western governments can be overthrown by 6 facebook maymays we might as well throw in the towel and accept Putin as our God Emperor.

Please don't be fooled.

By you? :P Given the lack of real info all the rest is in my opinion belief. Or, at most, a semi-educated guess. So whether I believe you on this topic or any other opinion, I'd be fooled no matter what. Just saying 'I don't know' seems the easy and most correct way out here, for now.

I've heard this called "epistemic learned helplessness", and I think it's a cool bit of self-awareness.

Russian meddling again, playing straw man.

Can we just ban Russia from the internet?

Thugs can only play games for so long before people rise up. Russia is a thug nation and the world has had enough.

Would you please stop posting uncivil and/or unsubstantive comments to HN? You've been doing the political flamebait thing repeatedly. It's destructive of this site and not ok.

In particular, comments smearing an entire country are bannable offences here regardless of which country it is.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

National attacks are not ok on Hacker News, regardless of which interpretation of current events you subscribe to. Please don't post like this again.

Edit: I want to say more about this. The overwhelming majority of HN users are legit community members, from lots of countries. Imagine being a legit community member from Russia and seeing people posting like you guys did here. It's frankly disgraceful.

Either this was a distraction/rogue American sympathizer, or the Trump Administration has jumped the shark in its “America first” behaviors.

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