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Comment by KozmoNau7 | Hacker News Reader

This "must be busy" mindset and 50+ hour work weeks is so utterly alien and wrong to me, and I'm glad I feel this way.

I would never let a job get in the way of family and social experiences, in the way of my life. Relaxation and leisure time is absolutely non-negotiable for me, I would never give up on a concert or culinary experience or anything else for something as mundane as work.

I think this mindset has also gifted me with more patience and more ability to not be bored, compared to most of my peers. Luckily, all of my friends share my mindset, anyone too work-obsessed simply doesn't fit in for long.

I am a slacker, and I enjoy it very much.

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My office recently moved across town so I started going in early to beat traffic. I also started leaving early. Leaving early felt strange until I made a conscious decision to embrace it as a sort of healthy difference between me and the others that stay until 5 or 6. Recently I've been slipping and staying longer for "work reasons". The negative impact on my drive and home life is obvious enough to get me back on track and out the door by 3 or 3:30.

I am the same as you, alas I cannot afford not to work the hours I do (for which I have copped quite a bit of flack on HN about).

I do wonder why people who can afford to spend time with their family and not work 60-70 hours per week, actually do.

I can only imagine it would be that they really enjoy their work that much, or their in a culture such as here in Japan where you stay until the boss leaves - or else. (Not my situation, I'm a chef, stupid hours in my industry).

I'm terrified of letting people into my life, and the biggest reason is I'm afraid they'll cut into my work time. Now, sure, there's probably a bunch of Freudian damage that's gone into this. But however I got this way, I am this way, and I don't mind.

>> But however I got this way, I am this way, and I don't mind.

You might want to work on that stuff before it catches up to you in ways you don't anticipate.

I couldn't imagine living like that, with no room for friends and leisure.

May I ask what you do for work? And how fulfilled you are by it?

Game programmer. 8/10 fulfillment and climbing.

How is your relationship with your coworkers?

I mostly work alone, as of the past few years. Occasionally take consulting work or contracts. When I do have coworkers, my relationship with them is typically good to very good.

>> I do wonder why people who can afford to spend time with their family and not work 60-70 hours per week, actually do.

I've found that being unhappy at home can lead to working late (even subconsciously). The thing is, these things are often related in subtle ways. If I were to over-generalize I might say that having poor boundaries is part of why they stay late, and a part of the problems they are avoiding at home.

I won't say I /work/ 60 hours a week, but there's times I spend 60 hours a week at work because it's simply more pleasant than anything else I have.

And that's not subconscious, it's a very present tension between "ugh I shouldn't be here so much (but it's easy)" and "ugh I don't want to go home and face the reality I'm avoiding".

IMHO fixing your world is better (and harder) than avoiding it, but we all deal with our crap in our own time.

Boundaries are surprisingly powerful!

I suspect a lot of the long hours is actually a sort of productivity blindness. I've seen some research that suggests the people who most believe they're being effective working >40hrs/wk for more than 6 week stretches are the least likely to have positive net value after 40hrs. Worse is this compounds, such that working less hours in the short term do tend to result in less productivity, until one can recover from overwork.

Sadly, I'm not sure it translates well to industries like yours, where there is just a lot of physical labor involved, and long door hours. My understanding, is that one of the problems is simply the hours in the restaurant business require chef's attention for long hours each day, coupled with the vital need that the kitchen's output is consistent.

Hopefully you're thinking of ways to not have to be present, or ways to spend money instead of time, or just simplifying the menu to be less labor intensive. My heart goes out to you though, I know some chefs, and they are a special breed.

After you spent some time working that much, you forget what to do when you are not working. You will forget how to socialize out of work, you will not know activities you might like, you will loose friends and family will be alienated and used to live without you (you being suddenly at home will be distracting to them).

You come home and it is empty and lonely - you can watch tv or play game, but it likely feels pointless. Staying long in work allows you to drown the pointless feeling, at least you can feel good about yourself.

> I would never let a job get in the way of family and social experiences, in the way of my life.

For some people there is little choice. I have a limited mental budget for social experiences. Spending 40hr/week at the office already over-extends this budget, resulting in no social life whatsoever.

That's actually a really unusual, interesting and maybe also useful way to look at it.

Thanks!

As mentioned elsewhere in this thread part of it is economic but part of it is also a macho business culture that views overwork as a status symbol. It's really bad in some professions. If we think engineers and tech businesspeople have it bad talk to an architect.

Exactly, I think it's some sort of twisted pride — "I work more than you, so I'm superior to you" — and a remnant of Protestant work ethic. Work hard in this life, to be rewarded in the eternal afterlife. It has lost its religious connection, but the attitude remains.

I'll stay half an hour or an hour beyond by nominal working hours, if I have a time critical task that depends on me, but I'll compensate for it the next day. And I won't do it if it conflicts with my life outside of work. Then the work will simply have to be delayed a bit.

Luckily, I have only ever had colleagues and managers who understand this 100%. I've even had a few tell me directly that they wish they could have the same attitude and take better care of themselves.

I guess people work long hours out of necessity. Where I work, there are people who regularly put in 12 hour days, and even work at the weekend. This puts pressure on other people and makes the overall culture bad.

At least in software dev, we have some choices. There aren't that many choices for people in other professions. It is put up or leave situation, and people end up with long hours.

Thanks so much for that :) I needed to hear that I'm not alone in this.

> I am a slacker, and I enjoy it very much.

I like to say I'm discovery-oriented rather than goal-oriented. Being so means I also seek to avoid being overworked because I don't know how to not prioritize discovery. I've tried joining work with pleasure but I find it doesn't lead to good things.

That is actually a very good way to describe it, thanks :)

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