How to keep someone with you forever

It's depressing how much of that matches up with personal experience.

My first job right out of school had points 1 through 9 covered. It was only when I managed to get out that I realized I was right on the edge of a burnout. After leaving I felt like a weight was lifted off of me and I could breathe again. It felt like I had been holding my breath for months.

I was lucky because on top of 1 through 9 they also massively underpaid so when someone else came along offering nearly twice as much for more interesting work (which never materialized but that's another story) it was easier to jump ship. 500-1000$ bonuses a few times a year will let you massively underpay naive people for quite a long time.

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The one point that I've seen at every single job I've ever had is a combination of "Things will be better when..." and "Keep real rewards distant.". The former is almost always used as a justification for reneging on vague allusions to future bonuses, promotions, team or personal growth or whatever.

I've grown cynical enough that anything promised (though it's rarely a promise, it's usually more of a comforting insinuation) for more than a month in the future I assume will never materialize. I'm almost always right.

what, do people think about the ethics of a manager using the 'intermittent rewards' part in the form of unpredictable bonuses over and above regular salary (which would be regular) with the intent of harnessing the addictive nature of intermittent rewards, without using the rest of these things (which clearly cross the line into unethical.)

I'm considering implementing a bonus plan... and the question is, do I make them predictable, based on measurable stuff that I share? or do I add some randomness? do I assign them based on my own shifting perceptions? (the sort of people I hire are going to be better at manipulating the set rules than manipulating my perceptions... This is not true for all employees.)

Furthermore, would it still work if I used a predictable bonus schedule that included some random input... e.g. the chance of getting the bonus is, say, some metric based on increases in revenue or profit multiplied by a random value between 0 an 1 or something?

"If somebody is investing time, resources, and energy into convincing you of your own worthlessness, that same somebody has revealed to you that they have a lot to lose if you don’t believe them. They’re protecting their own loss of power."

From related article: http://www.fugitivus.net/2010/06/10/on-interpersonal-badness...

(un?)Suprisingly, his four rules of the 'sick system' lay out a pretty good groundwork for social games and MMORPGs.

This sounds too much like life in academia as a post-graduate student. It hit too close to home... too close.

Also known as how to spot a dysfunctional work environment! Lots of good advice in there, especially if you've never experienced cube-land first hand.

I wonder how many people are filing this under "useful but morally grey", versus "i need to quit my job and fill out a YC app"?

It's even easier to do all of this to yourself.

I find my Chinese government is doing exactly what the article says. Especially on Rule #1 and #2. Most of the Chinese people have to work hard for 20-30 years to pay the house debt. Chinese economic has grown at the speed of 10% for many years from the government report. It has to grow like this at least another ten years. Or there will be a disaster. Workers will lose their jobs. The bank will take back the houses. Then most of them will feel like they get nothing in all their lives.

I do agree that this does happen in large companies but its not done intentionally by the founder of the company. Rather when your organisation starts to grow it eventually succumbs to becoming this kind of system.

Sometimes the government will give you the perfect carrot-stick combo - the green card! For the longest time I never understood why american citizens would actually put up with the stuff I see going on in the office month to month.

Also, even these systems are gameable because there is so much randomness that with a little skill, you can get away with doing hardly any work and focussing on your own priorities. Of course you have to trade in the possibility of promotion etc but you'll get the occasional semi-big reward thats doled out to everyone :) ...

see also "The DENNIS System"

It reads as if my ex girlfriend wrote it, every single bit. :) I consider me lucky to be here being able to write this.

This is a great description of Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Although I haven't seen something define the mechanics of the relationship so well. The real question is, why would you want to keep people trapped in a failing system? It has to do with the the aggressors own fears of inadequacy.

Also, if you find yourself a victim of this type of relationship, usually there is something that you need to fix about yourself. Seek good professional help. Otherwise you risk "escaping" into an identical situation. A healthy person would probably run at the first signs.

Honest question: Why does this article resonate so much and has over 200 upvotes as of now? Is this really such a wide-spread phenomenon?

Can't one detect such behaviour very fast and get out of the rollercoaster before any damage is done?

That's how all governments work. Keep your citizens as disheveled as possible and they won't know what hit them during election time.

This is so good.

I'm sure if you just push yourself a little harder you can get past this current crisis and everything will be ok.

Weird, I know of a couple of web communities/businesses that work like this. Some astute members have even noted that they work like a dysfunctional relationship... here it is all laid out like a game plan.

The other way to do this is being part of solid, established social system.

That's what kept employees, husbands and wives together in the US fifty years ago or I'd imagine in Japan twenty years. It's not just that the situation asks you to stay but that everything outside the immediate situation also asks you to stay.

But I'd agree this is what will work in a climate of overwhelming atomization and choice. Makes you really think...

Video Games Development is done exactly like that :)

It's a bit spooky when an article/link you've read a while back turns up on the front page of HN with quite some discussion around it.

Especially because the link is the :visited colour, and you have to go there just to confirm that what you'd read before remains the same :)

I think King Arthur had the last word on this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7ZUibOUX28

He was the Joel Spolsky of the Middle Ages, I'm telling you.

This seems like pretty twisted advice if you ask me. Maybe the only redeeming thing in the post is understanding power-hungry people so you don't fall for their traps. Though that's a bit depressing because sometimes what you study "to try to avoid" is what you become. <rant>As an example, some people study all the bad crap going on in the world, and they do it all the time. They study the power-brokers in high places doing shady deals. They look deeply into conspiracies -- some of which are probably true. They look at the deep and dark parts of the world; always justifying with things like, "if I don't understand these things how can I be a part of the solution?" Sometimes they get sucked in though to all the crap and they become some of the most depressing, annoying people. While it's true that you need to understand the dark parts of the system in order to fix them, it's important to remember balance.</rant>

edit: I suppose the relationship version of my example is those who are afraid to trust others and have happy relationships because they are focused on the dark and scary things that have happened to them in the past by those who have taken this post's advice and other similarly poor advice, or bad things that they've heard have happened to others, etc. Reminds me of something attributed to Shakespeare, “A coward dies a thousand deaths, a hero only one.” It's almost always better to look at the bright side, because you will probably end up having a few great relationships, than to look at the negative, and definitely have none. Easier said than done....

Wonder how much of that just corresponds to being alive? Intermittent rewards, keeping you busy, being tired, emotionally involved, crises occur --- perhaps much of this is just a fact of life and not intentional on the part of others? Yes, you can intentionally do this to people. But can't it also just be a natural part of existence?

I have posted this before in here, but it seems fitting to do it again in here:

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1200226

That sounds exactly like what I wrote about in 'the start-up from hell the other week'. Uncanny.

Seems like it would take a lot more energy to be manipulative than it would be to excel at something.

Sounds like emotional slavery and a recipe for future prozac customers.

Scary how similar to a cult the process runs.

sounds like democracy

The advice is great on both fronts wish I read it about 10 years ago. Really bad work places and a really bad relationship, it works even better when you're doing both at the same time. Lesson learned, you can't save the world, shitty people and shitty companies will always be so, the key is to move on and surround yourself with great people both in business and in life.

It's really the same effect in both cases, they always threaten to fire you / leave and when you say OK, they beg you to stay. The crazy part is how effective it really is. I think the article really best describes sociopathic behavior. At least it only really takes about a year to recover from it all.

http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html

Apple. LOL

Duct tape works too.

Pray together. The rest will follow.