Braille Neue Combines Touchable Braille with Visible Letters | Hacker News Reader

Braille Neue Combines Touchable Braille with Visible Letters

mymodernmet.com

123 pointscoreyp_130 comments

I don't quite understand the problem it solves. It has disadvantages over dedicated type for both sighted and blind people. For the sighted, it's harder to read than fonts typically used for signage, and the blind get a cumbersome letter-by-letter string rather than grade 2 braille.

What advantages does it have versus just overlaying regular braille with an easy-to-read font? Yes, the dots don't match up with the letters, but that is not really a problem, is it?

I like the spirit of it but the readability for sighted, and especially barely sighted people is problematic. If it works for blind people but not for almost blind people, it's a bad solution.

It's a neat idea, but for public signage, I'm not sure there's much value in aligning the braille dots with the visible characters. Tactile letters and visual type can coexist quite easily on the same area without interfering much with each other, so what's the problem?

I could definitely see this as an aid to learning braille, I just don't see it causing a big change in accessible signage.

Except that most people don't use Braille letter by letter - they use grade 2 Braille which combines multiple letters into a single character - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Braille

Could be done in a font with ligatures.

Turns out that ligatures in common font formats are quite powerful! See e.g. http://www.sansbullshitsans.com/ or https://github.com/tonsky/FiraCode

For a correct Braille 2 translation one needs to understand the context of a word. Your first link actually is a good example for this problem. Enter "agile" and "fragile".

To second this, Braille "folding" is also sensible to pronunciation..

Letter by letter is fairly common for signage / labels, which seems to be one of the intended applications.

One thing to keep in mind is that not-all people who are blind are completely without vision. There's a lot of variations of blindness, and the need for accessibility. There's a good chance that some people needing to read braille can see that there's a sign there, but just can't read the letters with their eyes, especially in certain lighting conditions.

Interesting. My mother has worked on a similar system for awhile, embracing some of the more technical nuance of braille (like contractions and math and such) http://dotlessbraille.org/ which was inspired by her father's work (my grandfather) on a what he called "Braille for the sighted" or "kobographs" (his initials are KOB) http://www.dotlessbraille.org/kobographs.htm

I made a font based off Kobigraphs with font struct a few years ago [1] - but it’s not really a perfect mapping. I found the dotlessbraille.org site quite interesting.

[1] https://fontstruct.com/fontstructions/show/365490/braille_ko...

Something I've always wondered is how blind people discover braille on placards in public spaces, given the seeming random placement of signage and the unreliability of signage to include braille.

Life as a blind person is littered with questions like this. Quite often, braille signage is one of those things a sighted companion points out, usually just because of the "hey, look at this!" factor. I go through life expecting that places won't have braille signs, or if they do, I'll look like an idiot trying to find them anyway so I expect not to use them. There are some places that often have similar layouts (e.g. hotels) where this situation could be taken advantage of - if hotels had braille signs for room numbers it would make it easier to navigate. But I've never stayed in a hotel that did.

There are other issues, for example an airport might have a special assistance desk for disabled travellers but you need assistance to find or reach it.

Thank you for the response. How helpful would it be to have some kind of standard that indicates a building has braille signage? I'm thinking it could be somewhere you would always know where to inspect first, so you dont waste time checking around. I think a good place would be a door handle into the building that simply idicates right or left. Then just inside the door to the right or left there would be braille instructions like - "all rooms have braille signs 5 feet from ground. The floorplan is such. Here is where you can find room x y z."

I wonder if some system like a deafloop could help with these experiences.

I assume that most blind or vision impaired people are already carrying smartphones; perhaps some way of providing location hints through the phone could help a visitor.

Most I've seen are on handrails of stairs. Seems like a sensible choice.

I'm not blind, but I've always wanted to learn braille so I could read in the dark while getting ready for bed. However, I've also been lazy and haven't devoted the time to learning. I think this might be the perfect thing to let me passively learn while I do my normal reading. Kudos to the creator!

If you want to learn to read braille by touch rather than by sight, you may have a hard time trying to do so passively. Paying attention to what your sense of touch is telling you and then translating it into letters, words, sentences and then eventual meaning is not the same as using your eyes to achieve the same thing. It's also a fair bit slower unless you practice a lot. Best of luck with it though, more people should learn things like braille as a life hack!

I'm sorry for the clickbait-y title... it's the one on the page itself.

I did think that this was an interesting design, and might be of interest to people here.

I also found a website for the font itself: http://brailleneue.com/

It's great Takahashi lists prior art under "Reference of Past Works", explaining Braille Neue differs from previous attempts by

>design[ing] a typeset that correspond[s] not only to latin alphabets but also to Japanese fonts.

I wonder why those other efforts (or any effort) were not used for the braille signage one often sees at bank ATMs and in building interiors.

The idea is really cool and I like the aesthetic of Braille Neue, which looks monospace in its capital letters version. (Presumably a lowercase, if there were lowercase versions, would not map so cleanly.) Also, there is the issue of punctuation which would in some cases would defy visual/tactile mapping. [0]

In any case, what Takahashi presents so far is very very cool.

[0] http://www.brl.org/codes/session01/punc.html

Cool idea, but who benefits from the alignment? Why not just place to dots as usual and then paint the text over everything in whatever font you want? Seems like it would be less distracting to the sighted with no downside at all to the blind.

I'm not sure what it was created for, but it seems like a neat way to learn Braille for people with sight. Close your eyes, feel the dots, and look to see if you got it right.

Acutally it's not. The braille dots just happen to randomly lie somewhere on the lines of the letters.

It's silimar to this thing that is supposed to teach the numbers: https://imgur.com/m6HOhfJ It's so constructed (useless lines and serifs where more corners where needed) that you can't really learn anything from it.

I'm a very visual learner; if I spent enough time looking at these letters I'd probably start to remember where the dots are on each letter. Not sure how well that'd translate to recall when touching the letters with my eyes closed though.

> Derived from the popular Helvetica Neue font

I’m not really seeing the resemblance. Could someone enlighten me? Also, would this lead to licensing restrictions?

Either the article is incorrect, or there is a different style not shown that is actually based on Helvetica. You’re not missing anything.

Though I don't imagine this particular typeface will suddenly be popping up everywhere, I think there's a lot of value here to introduce accessibility to more spaces and encourage similar projects to come about.

I have an old friend from college who, at that time, was already blind. Since then, illness has robbed her of her hearing.

Having something like this where she can read, and her husband can see the same written content would be invaluable to their relationship.

Forwarding this article to the couple.

Why don't they overlay transparent Braille lettering onto existing signs?

Isn't Braille always the same size so I can touch it? Isn't print in public spaces often large so I can see it from far away?

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