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Comment by kragen | Hacker News Reader

When I moved to Argentina, it took me a while to get used to bidets. But now that I'm used to them, I never use toilet paper voluntarily. It leaves your butt still dirty!

As someone said, if you got poop on your arm, maybe while changing a diaper, would you wipe it off with a piece of paper and consider it clean? No, not if you're from the mainstream of any developed country. You would use water, soap, and maybe more extreme measures.

Well, why do you leave your anus caked with residual poop, then? Advance into the 18th century: get a bidet, and learn to use it. Overcome your ignorance and embarrassment. Even I did.

(I still use toilet paper in public restrooms, though. They usually don't have bidets.)

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Honest question: Can a bidet user explain why bidets are superior to just having a nearby faucet to dampen the toilet paper, like this?:

https://d193qi3ct19t6b.cloudfront.net/products/24229/regular...

Having a separate system and jet of water seems like a lot more complexity with increased risk of splash. And the cleaning properties of dampened paper seem strictly better than a stream of water. Just like I wouldn't wipe off poo from my arm with dry paper, I also wouldn't just run my arm under water without also mechanically scrubbing it.

Obviously, most toilets without bidets don't have faucets close enough to reach from the toilet, so a bidet might be an improvement over the status quo. But it seems way easier to install a small faucet than a stand-alone bidet, and way less maintenance to have a small faucet than one of those built-in water jets for toilets.

The bidet does not need to be stand alone. You can get them for under $30 that attach under the seat.

Before I put a bidet attachment on my toilet, my flushable-wipe usage was about a median of 3 and a mean of probably 4. Sometimes I just had to keep wiping to make sure _everything_ was gone from underneath, and I make sure my wipes are extra-wet with witch hazel.

Now, my flushable-wipe usage has a median and mode of 1, with a mean of maybe 1.2. The long right-hand tail is considerably shorter and not as tall.

All this is probably better for the environment since it probably uses less stuff to get the extra water to my house than it does to get the extra processed butt wipes to my house. Also, I get a cleaner clean with fewer wipes going down the pipes, which reduces the likelihood that the pipes will clog. The Cottonelles I use don't clog my pipes generally, but I've used (and stopped using!) other brands that have.

As for the splash? Well, I've got TP right there if my cheeks and perineum get too wet. It's not a problem.

Sure, spraying with a bunch of water will minimize paper usage, just like lightly dampening the paper with water will minimize water usage. But both amounts are so trivial compared to the water and paper product usage by a typical person that most of us aren't optimizing for this.

>Can a bidet user explain why bidets are superior to just having a nearby faucet to dampen the toilet paper, like this?

Water pressure. I live on the 5th floor of a 16 floor building with the water tank at the top. The pressure of the bidet is enough to clean everything off in seconds. The risk of splash is only when you use it incorrectly. Just sit for a minute or two extra to let gravity do it's work on the excess water present on your butt.

>Having a separate system and jet of water seems like a lot more complexity

I don't think so. In India, we just attach it to a normal water valve. The same one to which we attach taps, flush tanks, showers etc. It's a pretty standardized attachment.

Sit for a minute or two on the toilet waiting for all the water to drip off?

Even in the USA, it is fairly trivial to attach a bidet. Being from India, I could not live without it and went on to install it in all our bathrooms. Takes less than 30 minutes to install one, and you can order one from Amazon

But they break and make cleaning more difficult.

I've been using a $30 bidet for a couple years now with not a hint of trouble. Figured I'd test the concept out before dropping real money on a Toto, then realized that I actually like the water cold. I clean the toilet the same way I always have -- with a toilet brush. The bidet does not really change that process meaningfully.

I guess my experience living in a house with one of these in-bowl bidets was very different. It introduced more nooks and crannies than a simple bowl, and necessitated more frequent cleanings.

Where I live, toilet paper is mandated to dissolve in water at a certain rate (to avoid clogging the sewage), and that rate precludes dampening the paper sufficiently.

I guess? I don't know if your paper dissolves vastly faster than the standard stuff in US and Canadian stores. I haven't had a problem, but to each his own.

Well said. Whenever I bring this up to friends, they seem weirded out by bidets, sometimes even grossed out. How can it be grosser than trying to smear poop off with a paper towel!?

I was (surprisingly, to me) mocked by friends/family when I purchased a bidet seat a few years ago. Over the period of a few months, most went from teasing to shy curiosity to buying one for their own home. A victory for cleanliness!

People who mock you for having a cleaner butthole than them are strange people indeed.

::shrug:: Can't say I disagree. People have surprisingly strong feelings about getting their butts splashed with water.

They're afraid they'll enjoy it, and it will undermine their fragile macho manhood.

Perhaps unexpectedly, it was the women who were most put off it, not the men. FWIW. I realize this was hardly a scientific sample.

Surgeons used to mock other surgeons for washing their hands. A centuries-old insult about the French is that they insist upon bathing every day. People seem to generally associate cleanliness with a sort of hysterical fussiness.

This is not about cleanliness; any type of virtue is resisted by others before it becomes the norm, because of course people tend towards less effort than more.

> [..] insult about the French is that they insist upon bathing every day.

That's funny, I think the Brazilians have exactly the opposite insult - i.e., the French rarely take a bath.

> How can it be grosser than trying to smear poop off with a paper towel!?

I understand that with a bidet one must use one's naked fingers to clean the area. That seems substantially grosser than using toilet paper. Then there's the risk of spray going the wrong direction, and of getting one's trousers wet.

A bidet sounds awesome, but terribly impractical. I wonder how people are able to use one so often.

You have a couple of options:

· Just spray your anus with high-pressure water, let it drain, then put your pants back on, dampening them with the few drops remaining. This leaves you cleaner than toilet paper, while keeping your fingers away from your anus and any poop that might be hanging around.

· Spray your anus with high-pressure water, then use your naked fingers and soap to wash. This does indeed potentially contaminate your hands with the film of fecal bacteria left behind, but then you wash your naked fingers with soap and hot water, which is usually considered adequate.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00A0RHSJO/

$35 and installs in 10 mins with included tools on most toilets. I have installed them on every toilet I regularly use and somewhat internally question anyone who uses Amazon and toilets and doesn’t have one.

It also now bothers me when I stay in a 5 star hotel in the US and there is no bidet; I have seriously considered installing one of these (and leaving it) in each hotel I stay at for more than 48h.

Thanks for this. I had no clue this was a option. Just ordered one. And in my apartment the sink is right next to the toilet and the hot water line is exposed for the sink. So it should be easy enough to make it warm.

For those interested I bought this exact model and it didn't fit my toilet seat. It essentially adds an extra 2 inches or so of material between the porcelain and the bolt tabs on the seat. This means it doesn't close completely. Apparently you can buy bumpers but I'd need huge bumpers and didn't like the aesthetic. I have what I'd consider a standard seat so I'm not sure what kind of seat wouldn't require the bumpers.

It's really not the same as a line pressurized bidet, but I bring this [1] with me when I go out.

[1] https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008CSDKSQ/ref=oh_aui_sear...

you question my internals? That's an interesting phrase to internally question :-)

This is great if you don't have small children -- I discovered this the hard way... Otherwise, you probably need something with an auto shut off watchdog timer.

Thanks. Seriously considering buying one.

Others: be sure to read the review by Mercury. It's very funny.

I grew up with bidets, but lately have been giving myself “quick enemas”, which means colon cleansing. My method is a simplified version of a more traditional enema, and it has the following perceived benefits: more thorough cleaning with water, evacuation of feces that would have stayed in otherwise, less smell in the area throughout the day.

Method: after pooping at home, I use a vaginal cleanser (a pump) with some soap to lubricate the tube and inject cold fresh water into the anus. I immediately release the water into the toilet. It gives me additional relief after the regular evacuation and there is always something to be released.

Here’s a traditional enema method:

(https://m.wikihow.com/Perform-an-Enema-at-Home)

I'm not a doctor, but to me it doesn't seem to be healthy to be giving yourself a daily enema.

I think your point is also valid in countries that are still developing - and more so, if you consider those cultures have never used tp and likely never will.

Do bidets shoot soap up there? Should they? :D

They do not. Since sometimes the pressure is high enough for water to go into your anus, it would be dangerous for them to shoot soap.

How do you dry?

Toilet paper!

Well, I have one of the simple unheated hose sprayer-type bidet things which I installed during a period of let's just say discomfort at some point in the past, and that's what I do, but I assumed the hardcore bidet users had some superior solution, like mentioned below.

Small towel. Bath towel > Face towel > Foot towel.

(Spot the euphemism. But it is also used for drying feet, after wrapping the body with the bath towel, when coming out of the shower.)

The higher end models have heated blowers. But TP is kind of superior to that imo.

Maybe the skin around the anus is more resilient to bacteria?

how much better is water ? is it 100% clean ? is it the most efficient (outside nasa technology) ?

Do we need to bring Dyson to the table ? bladeless ass wipe, only 900$

> how much better is water ? is it 100% clean ?

They did provide a reference point...

> if you got poop on your arm, maybe while changing a diaper, would you wipe it off with a piece of paper and consider it clean?

...were you expecting something more rigorous?

yes, I don't really understand the whole thing.

A bidet you use water to clean your outputs, instead of paper only. But

1) you probably have your arm under there to dry it too, it's cleaner but not perfectly clean I suppose. So you might have bacteria/microbes too

2) I forgot my 2 but you get the idea. Unless you have something that doesn't involve approaching your ass you're still not 100% clear.

It is infinitely better than dry toilet paper. Trust me because like OP I've used both methods and I am never more grossed out than after going through a North American toilet.

I just use sink at home. Being tall has its benefits. When I come around to buying my own apartment I will definitely get a bidet.

You might want to use a "bidet shower" if you don’t have a standalone bidet: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bidet_shower.

It connects to your water faucet or your toilet tank so you don’t spread germs in the sink. On Amazon they start at $ 10.

Hope no one uses that sink beside you. A "Biffy" toilet attachment is very convenient to install, inexpensive, and potentially a lot more considerate to others.

Sink is easy to clean. Nothing is left behind. I don't see this problem. It is like bidet, but taller. I first clean my ass, then the sink and finally my hands.

I did that for a little while after I'd discovered a bidet but didn't have my own. But this one [1] is only about $25 and is really worth it. And I bring this [2] with me when I go out.

[1] https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003TPGPUW/ref=oh_aui_sear... [2] https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008CSDKSQ/ref=oh_aui_sear...

Toilet paper is gross. The notion that toilet paper is the best much less the only means of toilet hygiene is pretty ignorant.

For an educational laugh: https://youtu.be/dKkryfdtMNQ

By the way, the simplest solution, for people who are regular, is simply to do your business before your shower.

Exactly. Nothing beats the home advantage. Hot water and soap and a proper cleaning of all those hidden areas is the only way to get clean.

We can buy "adult baby wipes" in u.s. stores now. It's a good compromise.

Which will cause blockages in sewers.

Aren't those things an environmental catastrophe though?

It's also really wasteful.

Bidets are pretty weird, but I totally recognize their superiority to plain ol' toilet paper.

+1 for wet wipes.

wet wipes are terrible for plumbing though.

You can slightly dampen toilet paper for a similar, and more safely flushable, effect. You can buy little bottles of spray for the purpose, loaded with the same anus-friendly substances as wet wipes.

> +1 for wet wipes.

As long as you bin them.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/09/putrid-130-ton-mass-...

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