London murder rate overtakes New York for first time ever | Hacker News Reader

London murder rate overtakes New York for first time ever

msn.com

56 pointskimsk11220 comments

Look at the stats! London "overtakes" NYC because homicides decrease FASTER in that city. But it decreases in both cities. So good news!

Not according to the article. (Well, they compare different time scales. So...maybe?)

> While New York City's murder rate has gone down - decreasing by around 87 per cent since the 1990's - the Big Smoke’s has simultaneously surged. London's has increased by nearly 40 per cent in the space of three years alone - not including deaths caused by terrorist attacks.

"Not according to the article." The article might be sensationalist bullshit. The data point three years ago was a record low so a regress to the mean is not expected. The homicide rate was 2.1/100k in 2007 and 1.5/100k in 2017 so the overarching trending is still decreasing.

There have been cuts in police since austerity was imposed in 2008.

In general the rule of law seems to be breaking down. One small thing thats noticeable; up until 5 years ago a green man at a crossing meant cars would be stopped.

Now, about every few times you go to cross a car will be driving across the crossing.

Since 2012, over £4 million of the London police budget is spent yearly on watching Julian Assange according to BBC. If they are willing to waste that kind of budget for no results one might wonder how result driven they are with their current budget.

Devil’s advocate: maybe the “results” from that spend are measured in how many people they persuade not to try to flee bail, rather than how many Julian Assanges they arrest. Of course that’s a metric that can’t really be measured, it may be a metric not worth spending that money on and the money being spent may not be succeeding, but it’s not necessarily as simple as “if they still haven’t arrested him it’s wasted money”.

(That said, I do personally think they’ve wasted a ridiculous amount on him, and I have many other issues with UK/London policing and police budgeting.)

It is true that its not that simple, but it is also the common attribute to all forms of government waste. Its not without reason why most government reforms and open government focus on measuring results and balancing it to the budget.

It is however a bit telling from the leaked documents when the London police asked Sweden to not drop the case: "It is simply amazing how much work this case is generating. It sometimes seems like an industry". In theory they could be thinking about the deterrence factor for bail jumpers but all the arrows are pointing to a government agency being happy to spend budget on a job which has zero accidents, zero gun shootings, and generates employment. It is a real possibility that this new article would not exist if that budget went into investigating and catching criminals, considering the 6 years times £4 million.

Why would social media, of all things, be to blame for any of the rise in killings?

I think the theory is it's easier to get into rows on social media and harder to back down. Without the context I'd say it sounds plausible, but since it's from Plod it would be surprising if it were true.

Consider the source: Cressida Dick, and the Met Police. Look into their history, conduct, competence and attitudes, and you’ll understand why. I’m decidedly not a fan of much social media, but this is the usual deflection you get from the usual sources. Dick is so far to the authoritarian Right that she walks with a limp. She’s definitely not going to say that years of failed social and economic policies have predictably led to a rise in violence, but blaming social media? Oh yes.

Some background on the recent history of violence in the UK might help too. http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-42749089

Note that most knife attacks are during the commission of another felony, usually robbery. Unless social media is somehow being used to coordinate robbing people, you can safely dismiss Dick’s claim.

There is also element of drug prohibition that brings violence. I think I have never heard this on any debate about the problem. It seems like there is a media embargo to talk about this correlation.

Is it just me or do they not actually show what the murder rate is?

I'm just gonna go ahead and be the one to say it, immigrant of 1, 2 and 3 generation, same thing with rape.

How brave of you to share your bigotry from a throwaway account?

The downvotes are pretty predictable for people espousing certain opinions. Is it 'brave' to just accept that you're going to lose some karma? IDK, it's all just stupid internet points.

We've banned this account for using HN primarily for ideological and political battle. Would you please read the site guidelines and not do that? It's destructive of what HN is for.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

One year. Big deal. Anyway London is probably doping in a desperate effort to capture the title.

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