Comment by jknoepfler | Hacker News Reader

Comment by jknoepfler | Hacker News Reader

I honestly don't see what's wrong or surprising about this. I personally find the content nauseous, but if a hypothetical thirteen year old daughter were curious about it I'd be happy to read through an issue and talk about it. It sounds like a good conversation starter for the different axes of human ambition and human value. Teaching from the extremes isn't my favorite idea, but so be it.

I force myself to listen to crazy angry conservative and christian radio on and off for the same reason. If we can't embrace aspects of human personality that we find loathesome, I don't think we can love others, or ourselves.

Interestingly I feel like this article comes from a similar place as anger radio (which is, ironically, overwhelmingly money-motivated and exploitative).

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I don't see the value in otherizing media like this. It exists, it's part of our culture, and in one way or another, it's a part of us. Embrace it, engage with it, teach from it, but don't revile it.

I had a different reaction. It felt very wrong. I don't like how our culture worships money. It's bad enough that more college students see 'being very well off financially' as a more important goal than helping others (compared to other generations) [1]. If children are getting these messages at an even younger age, that's disturbing. After all, children are more impressionable. I want the next generation of children to know there are more important things than money. I believe children will be happier their whole lives if they're raised with those values.

[1]https://www.thestreet.com/story/12791561/1/millennials-just-...

Saying "It exists, it's a part of our culture" is such a defeatist response. Culture is formed by all of us. You don't have to just let it happen. You can push back, and work to change culture for the better. That's why I like your last bit - we can engage with it and teach from it. I'd expand that to include: we can disapprove of it.

When college was a finishing school for the elites, students had different goals from today when college is he entrypoint to the dog-eat-dog commercial world. Not surprising, and not an endorsement of the baby boomer culture that sold out the next generation for their own profit.

Those money-grubbing millenials are paying the Social Security entitlements to Baby Boomers

On a macro scale, I agree. We should strive to improve our culture and reduce the harm our actions have on anything outside ourselves. The world would be a better place if we all worked together, undoubtedly.

On a micro scale, if I had children, I'd teach them to take every advantage they can get. I'd teach them to be ruthless, because that's what the world rewards. If someone has to suffer, I'm doing everything in my power to prevent it from being them.

You can't attack these problems from the bottom. A parent would be putting their child at a disadvantage in the interests of the state, which is absolutely absurd to expect. It has to be an institutional movement.

It would be great if we could remove the system that rewards that behavior, but in absence of that, the correct move for any individual agent is to exploit the imbalances.

> I'd teach them to be ruthless, because that's what the world rewards

You can't be a doormat, but I don't think naked ruthlessness is necessary to be successful or to leave a good mark on this world.

I would say to strive for humane, resilient excellence.

the question is not whether or not to push back, the question is how. Do we begin from a place of compassion, or a place of condemnation? Are we a spectator booing from the outside, or are we a participant prepared to have a conversation?

Avarice is a deep facet of human psychology. Our kids don't need to be 'exposed' to it to discover it in themselves. If one condemns avarice, one doesn't provide a path for one's child (or oneself) to reconcile themselves with with reality. You and those you condemn remain avaricious, but under different flags and in your own ways.

It’s not a matter of culture it’s a matter of economy. We’re in a viciously competitive globalized economy and money is how you ensure your kids have a decent life. Asian kids are taught this implicitly; westerners are just having to abandon their idealized notions as globalized competition catches up to them.

> It's bad enough that more college students see 'being very well off financially' as a more important goal than helping others (compared to other generations)

I'd bet that this is largely because college students now graduate with tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars in student loan debt, and getting an entry level job out of college is harder than it's ever been. When you're struggling simply to stay float, you tend to be more concerned with your own well being than that of others.

> getting an entry level job out of college is harder than it's ever been.

I take it you were not looking for a job in '09-'10.

> It's bad enough that more college students see 'being very well off financially' as a more important goal than helping others (compared to other generations)

That's not surprising, considering that current college students did a lot of their growing up in the aftermath of the housing crash. It's kind of unfair to chide them for being preoccupied with financial stability (or for claiming to be when asked, not the same thing). Meanwhile, what's the messaging like about college today? That you should drop out to start a company, and that if you're studying anything not STEM related you're kind of a dope.

But really, in the link "helping others" is a close second at 65%, only a point behind the boomers and two points ahead of gen x. So, there goes declinism. Millenials are only about 4 points higher than gen-x in "well off financially" (70.8 to 74.4), hardly a generational sea change. The real difference is with the boomers, who come in at 73% "develop a meaningful philosophy of life" and 44% "well off financially". Perhaps rather than rejecting helping others, every generation since the boomers has rejected the solipsism it takes for a college student to list "develop my philosophy" as their primary goal.

>It's kind of unfair to chide them for being preoccupied with financial stability

The question is not about financial stability, but with "being very well off financially."

> Perhaps rather than rejecting helping others, every generation since the boomers has rejected the solipsism it takes for a college student to list "develop my philosophy" as their primary goal.

I'll give you that point. Younger generations may not be as materialistic as we think. But that doesn't invalidate my argument: It would still be shitty if they became more materialistic. That could happen if we tell 12 year olds they need to worry about their personal brand.

My outlook is there are definitely more important things than money like time - time for whatever you want - loved ones and friends, relaxation, enjoying life, charity work, etc. Money buys you time and unless you're reckless with it - it can remove or reduce a lot of stress. It makes a marriage and having a family much easier among other things.

I think we worship obscene money (ex: celebs, athletes, tech founders) and get rich stories but probably don't worship money as a whole - if we really did we wouldn't be in such debt buying crap and having no savings. 63% of Americans don't have enough to cover a $500 emergency. [1]

College students could be having that financial outlook you mentioned as a result of the crazy debt they took on. And the fact that 75% said raising a family was a life goal, which is higher than boomers and Gen X, at a time when raising a family is way more expensive than it used to be. If this is the case, then they actually value education and raising a family over money and money is just a means to attain those things. So I don't think that's alarming.

What's alarming to me is poor financial education and decisions and the desire to get rich quickly or feel like you're owed $X salary because you have $Y debt which I see with many new graduates.

[1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/maggiemcgrath/2016/01/06/63-of-...

Worshiping money is more a symptom of materialism than anything else. That's why people go into debt to buy things they don't need instead of saving their money. I also believe it's the cause of worshiping the uber-rich and get rich quick schemes.

Most people who are daydreaming about a get rich quick scheme probably aren't thinking about putting the money they earn in safe investments and living the rest of their life on the $80,000 a year they can get from the returns. They're thinking about the mansion, sports car, exotic vacations, etc.

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