Buying a facebook speaker, or really any home-speaker for that matter seems like a really bad idea. You give it the ability to record everything in your home for a slight utility.
All that said, I believe Apple, Amazon, and Google all have worlds more trust in this area than Facebook.
They're also orthogonal to smartphones.
> why do you think they aren't lying about what their mobile OSes or apps are doing?
Why do you think everybody thinks that? And why frame it that way from the get go, to what the companies themselves are doing today, and/or to what the widgets do in isolation? It's another vector of attack for all sorts of actors, present and future, including the companies themselves.
> All that said, I believe Apple, Amazon, and Google all have worlds more trust in this area than Facebook.
They're not the baseline, the baseline is none of these devices. And for me, those all have worlds less trust than entities I trust, and the difference between them and Facebook is pretty much irrelevant in the big picture.
I don’t like the 1 second of buffer the iPhone has for Siri with Hey Siri disabled - but LOL if I’m going to install a single purpose always listening microphone for gimmick reasons.
I disagree.
> they ride off your own network so it is easy to see when they are sending data back home unlike phones which can transfer data over harder to monitor 3rd party networks
…if you use a VPN, then you can check for traffic here as well.
> They are cheaper and lower powered machines so they can't do a lot of processing on device and can't store a large amount of data for later transfer.
HomePod has an Apple A8 processor, and Google Home has some sort of ARM SoC. These aren't low-powered machines; on the contrary, they can run 24/7 since they're always powered.
> They are stationary in your home and therefore likely spend a majority of the time listening to nothing
I think this makes them more likely to be overlooked, more than anything.
> Finally, if you believe that these companies are shady enough that they are lying to their customers about what these smart speakers are doing, why do you think they aren't lying about what their mobile OSes or apps are doing
Some of them, maybe.
This is conditional on the assumption that the device is doing what it tells you it is doing. Like the point in my previous comment, if you believe the device is lying to you about when it is recording, why do you trust that it isn't hiding non-VPNed connections from you? Smart speakers can not physically transfer data themselves and can only forward data over WiFi or Bluetooth.
>HomePod has an Apple A8 processor, and Google Home has some sort of ARM SoC. These aren't low-powered machines; on the contrary, they can run 24/7 since they're always powered.
The A8 is a 4 year old processor and the HomePod is by far the most expensive and powerful of these devices. Maybe I was downplaying their potential processing power too much, but the fact still stands that a modern smartphone is much more powerful than a modern smart speaker.
>I think this makes them more likely to be overlooked, more than anything.
And phones aren't overlooked when they spend almost 24/7 within a few feet of the owner?
I am not saying these devices don't present any potential issues. I am just pointing out that the risk is lower than the one we have already accepted by using smartphones. Stressing over compromised smart speakers is like stressing about whether you locked the door to the third floor balcony while not caring that the front door is unlocked.
Ahh, so you don't trust the operating system itself, rather than the apps running on it. In this case, you're free to physically turn off cellular data on your phone (e.g. by removing the SIM) and connect it to Wi-Fi.
> The A8 is a 4 year old processor and the HomePod is by far the most expensive and powerful of these devices. Maybe I was downplaying their potential processing power too much, but the fact still stands that a modern smartphone is much more powerful than a modern smart speaker.
Sure, but you don't need a whole lot of processor power. What you need is a reliable power source, which is something that a smart speaker has.
> And phones aren't overlooked when they spend almost 24/7 within a few feet of the owner
While smart speakers don't have to even be within a few feet of the owner to work.
The argument against any of these devices is that they are compromised either by a third party or by the actual device maker. Google and Apple make the OSes installed on almost every mobile device. If you don't trust Google's or Apple's smart speaker why do you trust their OS?
>In this case, you're free to physically turn off cellular data on your phone (e.g. by removing the SIM) and connect it to Wi-Fi.
That isn't a valid solution became it is hindering a device in such a way that it can't perform its most basic duty. Real people don't put a SIM into their phone only when they are expecting a call and take it out as soon as the call is over.
>Sure, but you don't need a whole lot of processor power. What you need is a reliable power source, which is something that a smart speaker has.
What do you think the average smartphone uptime is per day? I am willing to bet it is approaching 24/7. A majority of phones probably are hooked up to chargers a couple hours a day and they all have access to the battery any time they aren't/
>While smart speakers don't have to even be within a few feet of the owner to work.
And neither do phones. The range of smart speaker microphones is likely within an order of magnitude of the range of smartphone speakers but the average distance between a smart speaker and its owner is going to be several orders of magnitude higher than the average distance between a smartphone and its owner.
This isn't intended as a permanent thing: it's just a spot check on the traffic.
> A majority of phones probably are hooked up to chargers a couple hours a day and they all have access to the battery any time they aren't
The issue here is that any sort of processing is very noticeable on smartphones, since it will either cause the battery to deplete very quickly or charging to take a long time. It's basically impossible to get away with performing computation without it showing up in battery statistics.
Yes the processor is still strong but it's weaker than smartphones. Yes you can still sneak data past home networks but it's harder than 3rd party networks. Yes they can be more overlooked, but they still have access to less data than smartphones.
None of the points you make prove that home speakers are as bad or worse than smartphones. The original comment wasn't arguing that smart speakers are safe, they were just pointing out the hypocrisy over owning a smartphone and being against smart speakers.
And? Your phone is with you 24/7
> they have access to continuous power
I don't know about you but my phone hasn't run out of power in months.
> this doesn't mean that they aren't less dangerous
No one is saying that they aren't dangerous, you're missing the point. What I'm saying is if you carry a smartphone around, that's just as risky. Therefore, it's hypocritical to warn against smart homes unless you also don't have a smartphone.
> Smart speakers also have better range than smartphones
But smartphones are literally next to you at all time, they don't need better microphones.
I don't understand your argument here. If your smart speaker 100% maxed out its CPU and sensors for a month, would you notice? Probably not. I guarantee you would if your smartphone did, though, unless you keep it constantly plugged in.
> But smartphones are literally next to you at all time, they don't need better microphones.
I'll chalk this one up to individual preference. Personally, my phone is usually not near me at home (e.g. downstairs) since I have access to my computer, which I prefer using instead.
It's not hypocrisy to warn of dangers, regardless of being exposed in other ways. Also, your comment here equates 'smart speakers' with 'smart homes', which are not the same thing (yet).
This conversation can only progress when you consider the actual threat models (like security folks talk about). It seem strange to me to rant about the risks of smartphones vs smart home devices, when the data from both of those is potentially ending up with the same small set of companies.
Smart speakers are sending the audio to the mothership by design, it's the way they work in normal operation.
These things send back full audio to be processed by design. So, it's not a question of possible it's up to the provider what they want to do with the recordings the device is directly sending.
Nobody reads TOS.
Car analogy: leaving you car in a bad neighborhood, unlocked, key in the ignition, door open, with a "do not steal or we will send you a threatening letter demanding our car back" note.
I'd suggest you turn of all the personalization ads option they provided so that you can avoid to be precisely targeted
> When we do send information to a server, we protect your privacy by using anonymized rotating identifiers so that searches and locations can’t be traced to you personally.
Additionally, I can disable the microphone on my home device if I wish with the push of a button. If I'm in public I can't walk around asking every stranger within earshot to "disable their phone's microphone".
Now, explain to me, in the case where "Ok Google" is enabled; how isn't the phone always recording if "Ok Google" works (or "Hey Siri" for that matter)?
Given everything covered, is it still "disingenuous" to say that a cell phone is minimally as risky as putting any of the devices mentioned in a home if not more due to the inability to control the devices of others?
But if you think there will be people willing to self host and maintain a whole voice assistant service, you're off your rocker.
It's just like saying "Why doesn't everyone just use Tor and PGP?" Because it's an enormous pain in the ass and really only accessible to technical users.
There were probably people who said that about open source operating systems, once upon a time.
Extremely complicated software is packaged down to an installer and installed by non-expert users all the time.
But moreover, if you need to call me “off my rocker,” you’re not engaging in good faith.