Indian Prime Minister accused of spying on citizens using official app | Hacker News Reader

Indian Prime Minister accused of spying on citizens using official app

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67 pointskoreanbaba28 comments

I can imagine the author of the original tweet grinning wide at the marvelous stupidity of the entire media world. Just a little inspection is enough to realize how ridiculous the whole controversy is.

The 'spying' here is nothing more than using an analytics service called Clevertap. I haven't come across many apps/websites that didn't do so, in one way or the other. It's a fucking industry. If tracking the activity of an app's users would amount to spying, then I guess entire fleet of third-party SaaS services would need to go (Mixpanel, Amplitude, Zendesk, Intercom).

> stupidity of the entire media world

Half stupidity and Half sinister. The journalists and the opposition would apparently want to use the lack of tech literacy among the broader population against them.

Also, it's driven by fear. As in, the opposition doesn't want the BJP to have a app which they can push notifications on election day :)

I do not subscribe to this kind of news, nor do I support the political viewpoints of the various parties in India. I agree with you on the crux.

Having said that, Non Politically, I do not support 'analytics' solutions and find them morally wrong. In that moral line, I wont justify wrong industry practices even if everybody does it.

>If tracking the activity of an app's users would amount to spying, then I guess entire fleet of third-party SaaS services would need to go

If you were to explain this current behaviour to people from around 25 years or so ago, the vast majority of them would view what is these days euphemistically described as analytics, as definitely being a form of spying. The fact that it has been turned into a large commercial industry does not change what the behaviour actually is. That the NKVD was a routine part of Soviet society didn't excuse them and the same reasoning will not excuse modern marketing culture either.

But people from around 25 years ago (and to this day) have always been accustomed to this "form of spying". If you walk into a store you are typically followed around by the store staff who are always there to help you in case you aren't able to find something you are looking for. Technically this is a "form of spying". But we do not protest. We instead label it "hospitality". Once you become a "returning visitor" to the store, the store staff get to know you really well and treat you like a VVIP. This is nothing but analytics in the real world. It just so happens that the information collected about you isn't as structured as the virtual world.

I guess by conflating multiple terminologies into one basket we are probably doing ourselves a bit of disservice.

>If you walk into a store you are typically followed around by the store staff who are always there to help you in case you aren't able to find something you are looking for. Technically this is a "form of spying". But we do not protest.

Two things. Firstly, it is an entirely fatuous argument to try and claim that overly attentive shop assistants are somewhere in the same ballpark as modern digital analytics. They are not even playing the same sport.

Secondly, please do not consider getting a job as a shop assistant here in the UK, as overly attentive shop assistants are one of the few things that we actually do protest bitterly about, almost to the same degree as inaccurate weather reports, or people not properly understanding queuing.

Exactly, what's funnier is that CleverTap is an Indian product with a majority of their team being based out of India (including the top management).

I reckon they became a US based company post funding or more recently... and because of that Modi has received a lot more fire from the media.

Meh. Getting hyped too much.

- The app is actually not "official" as endorsed-by-the-government. This was always a election-canvassing application branded as "Narendra Modi" app when he was the candidate. This is maintained by the BJP (ruling party) alongside their other apps.

- The app uses Clevertap, which is also used by lots of Indian companies, especially in the mobile world.

Nothing wrong or illegal here. For an application by a privately owned organization in India, there are no data residency requirements either afaik.

Eliott has tweeted about finding flaws in the INC app (opposition party) as well, but if they are similar, don't expect them to be changed.

Not official? I recall Modi urging his follers on his radio talk show to download his app on multiple occassions.

The parent is saying it's not Government. It's BJP run.

But it's promoted by the Prime Minister, or the head of the government.

It is not official. Modi promotes it on his own, non-official capacity. This has gotten blurred over time, but the app is not a government application.

> Modi promotes it on his own, non-official capacity

Modi is the head of the Indian government. Non-official capacity in such a position does not compute.

Imagine Merkel having a shady side business after she's done being Chancellor for the day.

There is nothing "shady" about the app except for that it uses analytics just like all the other million apps out there.

He does give speeches at BJP rallies for elections to promote his party. Same with the app.

If the first is legal, what's wrong with the second?

The INC app was curiously deleted. https://www.outlookindia.com/website/story/after-blaming-nar...

This is like every other Android app out there. Their biggest mistake was choosing a company outside India to do analytics for them and not having a good privacy policy. Apparently, the opposition would love to make this issue as selling citizen's data to foreign companies and the BJP have to pay for it now.

> This is like every other Android app out there.

Really? "asks users to provide access to as many as 22 personal features on their devices, "

http://indianexpress.com/article/india/namo-app-asks-for-swe...

Use Analytics is a big business. As in, people make apps like battery saver or flashlight just so they can get millions of downloads, later track the other app usage and sell data.

Only here, they went little overboard with permissions like a flashlight. Like why the hell one would need it. I can see why other permissions are required though to use some of the app features.

They really do not need the small scale app to do so, when they can easily control facebook both virtually and literally.

This is news, reporting the remnants of fake news that was busted yesterday.

Sadly, its easy to unmask and bust fake news. But genuine news reporting based on fake news, will remain to be the scourge of the new age media

Not sure how true the contents of the article are, however Modi was rather pally with Mark Zuckerberg during his time in India. Read into that what you will!

He is like that with every top dignitary visiting India. It's just diplomacy. Don't read too much into it.

Read this article for more such instances: https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/modi-s-hug-diploma...

Exactly. Infact, he was even pal-ly with Nawaz Sharif (the then PM of Pakistan and therefore India's sworn enemy #1). I wouldn't read into anything inferred from diplomatic compulsions.

I think you are reading too little into it, especially considering the impact Facebook had on the US election.

Your comment was about Modi and Zuckerberg not Facebook and US election. Facebook had zero impact on Modi's election. It was anti-incumbency followed by a strong track record of Modi as Chief Minister for 3 terms that made the difference. On the contrary, Trump has zero track record and yet got elected to the highest office.

I'm sorry, but are the parallels not obvious? Facebook is a tool used to influence people. Politicians need the ability to influence people. Ergo, it is not beyond the realms of possibility that Modi would prefer to be a friend, rather than foe, of Facebook. Diplomacy aside, all I'm pointing out is that he has something to gain by having Facebook on his side (at least prior to recent events involving Facebook).

The gain isn't significant at all. At least in comparison to that of Donald Trump. Sure, Modi would prefer to be friends with everyone, including Facebook. That doesn't however automatically make him liable for spying on a billion plus Indians. That's stretching the argument too far. Just because Facebook was used as a tool to influence people in the US doesn't mean the same happened in India. Modi came to power purely because of the scam ridden and corrupt regime that existed previously and his track record of 3 terms as Chief Minister (spanning 15 years of real progress and development). Back then, Modi was a pariah in the US. He was denied visa by the US until he became the Prime Minister of India.

In fact, to make matters worse, Facebook's Free Basics service was outlawed by Modi Government. If he was a friend of Facebook, he would have enacted laws that helped Facebook. This happened after Zuckerberg's visit to India. Read more: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/feb/08/india-fac...

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