“Concerns about privacy tend to be old people issues” (2010) [video] | Hacker News Reader

“Concerns about privacy tend to be old people issues” (2010) [video]

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79 pointsmcenedella30 comments

I used to think that too - as an "old person" think "it's just me being old". Then I showed The Circle ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Circle_(2017_film) ) to my two teenagers (11 and 13 at the time) and was surprised how angry they got about it and I mean _really angry_. For them the idea being permanently watchable (premise of the Circle is there are cameras everywhere watching everything) was really terrifying.

Now these are typical modern kids. Probably spending too much time with YouTube, Instagram, Snapchat et al. And I've told them many times about the data that's being collected on them and the reaction was always "whatever". But The Circle really got to them.

I assume it's actually me as their father they're ultimately afraid of as teenagers - that I could see what they're up to at all times and impose rules / punish transgressions. But underneath that seems to be a basic human need for privacy that's essential to personal development.

TLDR: show The Circle to your kids

In Holland we just had a referendum on indiscriminant wiretapping, where the government was introducing legislation to allow more freedom for intelligence agencies to tap and store and share internet history.

The results were that the people rejected the proposal by a narrow margin, with older people voting in favor or the proposal, and younger demographics voting against. (Similarly, lower educated people were in favor, higher educated people against.)

So Privacy is not an 'old people issue' over here.

as a german i have to ask: like those remembering ww2 and the stasi?

data tropes are a whole different deal, when power shifts to the ugly

Exactly. It seems that everyone forgets that it is never a problem until unsavory people get into power. At that point it is too late.

Unfortunately too few people building these systems seem to know history well enough to realise the apparatus they are building can also be taken over by entities they are today completely opposed to. We are still exactly the same species that have given birth to the Stasi and other oppressive forces.

It would be good if people built their solutions with this in mind. Build defensively and with your users' privacy in mind from the start.

On online platforms, It's a stigma to compare current events with things that Nazis did because you'll be ridiculed if you do.

According to the Godwin's law, the longer the conversation goes likelier it is that someone will mention Hitler. People know this, so it is very uncool to co-relate current events with Nazi Germany. You'll be called out even if you're talking about literal Nazis doing literal Nazi stuff. Memes are powerful, people don't like to be ridiculed.

But it feels like this is wearing out.

In Turkey, you can't show concern for privacy without being ridiculed because a very popular comedian made a joke about CIA targeting you personally while you're barbecuing. You'll be slapped with that joke the moment you mention about your personal data being collected.

Jokes are powerful.

I think one of the reasons that Germany (and to a related extent, the EU) has such strong and progressive laws regarding online privacy is due to having screwed it up so bad in recent history.

The stasi situation is a very clear example of how ubiquitous surveillance can really fuck up social relations, and similar poignant examples are lacking from most western countries. Godwin's law and other comparisons are just figures of online speech, whilst here in Germany it's a very direct and concrete thing when there is clear and very recent (less than 40 years ago) history of these actions.

Compare them to Communists

This won't work too because there's a joke about communist taking over the government this winter(It's a similar to the "Year of the Linux Desktop" joke).

that's an even older people problem.

as a side note, the swiss banks did a massive job during WW2 hiding the identities of jewish customers who moved their wealth across the border. FATCA completely destroyed these secrecy laws.

OK so if privacy is not a real concern can I please have access to all the data in LinkedIn? Because if individual privacy doesn’t matter why should company privacy matter either so can I please have all your data LinkedIn?

If you say no because you want to protect the privacy of your users you’re contradicting yourself and if you say no because you want to protect the privacy of your company information which makes you money you’re contradicting yourself. Either way I think it’s pretty clear that this statement is just a hypocrisy designed to support the business activity of getting people to give over information for free to other people who can make money from that information.

you may have all the data, if you have 'the' money

This is quite stupid if you ask me; data is the gold of our times, we should have regulations in place that allow individuals to trade certain amounts of data with companies in exchange for money and/or a service - it shouldn't be one way only as it is now, they take everything a make a profit off of it.

Some Blockchain startups are coming up with ideas on how to solve a marketplace of data, but I fear it's not enough yet and it will die down with the ICO craze.

I like the idea of personal data regulation, but I can't imagine it being easy to enforce, when data can be passed with complete ease and without any detection when compared to moving expensive physical goods.

The big problem right now is that Cambridge Analytica/Facebook are about to set a precedent for large-scale data misuse by receiving little to no punishment. In a fair world you'd be right, and regulation would exist to give Facebook and co a big enough fine for their breach of trust to ensure that no one ever does this again.

GDPR seems to be on the right track, but I still fear that misuse will not be fined enough; if I remember correctly, it should be 20M or 4% of your gross profit worldwide, whichever is higher, and that'd be a joke to a company like Facebook.

The other problem to consider with GDPR is that it might set a barrier to entry too high for potential competitors to Facebook to emerge, which on the other hand has enough money to comply/pay the fines right away.

Wasn't it 4% of your worldwide gross revenue? That is much more substantial. But I guess it would still be profitable for FB to pay such a fine every few years in order to be able to continue doing business in the EU.

I think you are right on the revenue part.

Yes, it would still be profitable, the only thing I'm not sure about is if the fine would be cumulative for every misuse instance (i.e. in the Cambridge Analytica situation, 50M * 4%WGR) or if, every time a misuse is found, it's a una-tantum fine.

Might also be FUD to force countries in the EU to regulate tax at the same level, but I doubt Ireland/Holland will go down without a fight

Not supporting FB or any company and their data mining BUT... 'that allow individuals to trade certain amounts of data with companies in exchange for money' This is the premise to what they are doing. We made this cool application and you can use it without paying for it by allowing us to use the data.

LinkedIn only serves the employers. Who cares if I'm connected to X or Y ? Me ? no; X,Y ? infinitesimally. But the employer ? He's very interested in the way I connect to others, my reputation, the fact that social pressure implies my curriculum vitae is not "optimized", etc.

I would love to have a linkedIn where companies connect, display who they work with, show how they treat their personnel, etc.

(I know, this is "cliché", but well, it's true anyway)

Hey try this:

https://www.kununu.com/us

Maybe when Reid was talking we were on our way up the curve to the Peak of Inglated Expectations, and we’re now somewhere in or near the Trough of Disillusionment. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hype_cycle

nobody cares because people do not have time or will or ability to properly evalute the implications and cost. the only thing i can see that could do something if there is some sort of regulation, without it facebook will be facebook and this is only the cost of the business.

Cool what's your address, bank account balance and your kids names?

Go youself Mr Linkedin Founder!!

This comes from an "old person" and wants to make sure that his "young person" offsprings will NOT been taken advantage by parasites and scum.

Why is this 2010 video getting so much attention now? Because of the recent FB "scandals"?

Just assume that every online platform you are on is selling you and tour loved ones

The first time I felt (relatively) old was when I realized portn stars were younger then me.

Now I feel even older...

If you're unsure, it's Reid Hoffman, LinkedIn founder, talking.

Would you hire someone for a security position that chose to do an autoblitz by logging into their email account on LinkedIn?

Note: Video is from 2010!

"Dumb fucks", part deux.

Yes, we will never learn.

2010. Ah, how young and foolish I was back then...

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