What Soldiers Eat, By Country | Hacker News Reader

What Soldiers Eat, By Country

nytimes.com

29 pointspavs54 comments

I've spent a fair bit of time on an MRE "diet". I can say from first hand experience that MREs, with their water activated heating pouch (so you can get a hot meal and some hot coffee) are a miracle of modern science.

Some of them aren't so good (the bbq pork ribs in the article kinda suck), but some of them are outright amazing. I'd eat the Spicy Penne Pasta any day of the week over most modern frozen dinners. (And the cheese spread in some of the meals is worth fighting over).

The biggest problem is always trying to get enough fiber to make sure the 'ol plumbing doesn't get jammed up.

How are those ingredients organized inside the main plastic bag?

This has a good layout.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meal,_Ready-to-Eat

And the changing menus http://www.mreinfo.com/us/mre/mre-menus.html

The whole thing comes in thick plastic bag. When you cut it open you get several plastic bags and small cardboard boxes. The flameless heater is just another empty looking plastic bag (lower left in the picture). Inside the boxes are the main parts of the meal inside of sealed tin lined bags (think of them like a flexible can) -- I think the food is pasteurized for long shelf-life.

To heat up the food, you put a little water in the heater bag and close it up. You then put one of the courses and the heater bag together into one of the cardboard boxes and the reaction will kick in in a sec and make the heater bag really hot. You wait a couple minutes while it heats up the food and then you can take it out and eat a hot meal. If there are two courses you can then repeat (the heater bag will stay hot for quite a while). Or you can try and heat up some water for instant coffee.

Most of the meals also come with a little salt/pepper and Tabasco sauce so you can season to taste (which really helps with the omelet meal which I think they got rid of).

Most everything else is designed not to need heating, it's like crackers and peanut butter or something else. There's usually a sports/electrolyte drink or some kind of drink mix fortified with vitamins and such.

One thing that the military is really proud of is that these things have like a 3 year shelf life without the use of preservatives.

You can actually buy civilian versions (without the heater) http://www.mreinfo.com/civilian/mre/civilian-mres.html

Thanks for all the info.

Also, they seem to include the heater these days: http://www.mreinfo.com/civilian/mre/civilian-mre-comparison....

For MREs, everything is vacuum packed in smaller plastic or foil-plastic with a jumble of accessories in another plastic bag. Generally you can save some weight/space by opening it up and ditching the outer wrap and unwanted items.

I really loved the BBQ pork ribs. They also gave you soft bread in that pack, and I think it also came with mint pound cake.

The article neglected to mention the tabasco being used in your eyes to keep you awake while on guard duty.

I agree, the cheese spread (especially jalapeno) was the best. I would usually not eat the meat-like product in MREs.

Oh goodness, the jalapeno cheese spread was ever only in like 1 of the meals per box. People used to trade illicit bottles of liquor for one of those.

I got one of the worst cases of...erm..."intestinal movement"...from the ribs (fashioned into a sandwich with the bread of course). I could never bring myself to eat that particular meal again. I think they've replaced the bread in the newer (2009/2010) meals with a tortilla.

I still can't figure out how they made the pasta MREs so good. Old pasta noodles get soggy fast.

> ...tabasco being used in your eyes to keep you awake while on guard duty

Commander: Son, why didn't you see that group of enemy soldiers neak up on and slit the throats of half our men?!

Soldier: Well, I don't know, but I sure didn't fall asleep, sir!

I heard constipation was a problem for soldiers. One other country supplied fiber pills. Did soldiers take Metamucil or something to help move things along?

Nothing much. Some of the meals have a high fiber cracker you can use with the Peanut Butter or Cheese Spreads and I think the chocolate drink mix has some fiber. But I don't think it provides nearly enough fiber to overcome the logjam inside you. Eventually it just passes. But the meals aren't meant for long-term survival (no more than a month or so) anyway.

I spoke one time with a researcher who worked for the part of the army that put together the requirements for the MREs and the problem is that getting fiber-full food to stay stable for 3 years is an open problem.

If you really look into the science behind the MREs it's really some amazing technology. There's also some really cool hacks they use to keep the food shelf stable without preservative chemicals. I wish I could find the article about some of what they do.

On the plus side of field constipation, it keeps you from having to pop a squat in the middle of nowhere with no cover. :)

It could be intentional?

Same with the Canadian Swiss Steak IMP shown -- it's one of the least popular meals in the rotation, though it doesn't hold a candle to the universally reviled Ham Omelet (affectionately nicknamed the "Human Lung" and now thankfully long gone). The Macaroni & Cheese, however, is better than any such that ever came off a store shelf and makes a fantastic hearty breakfast (if you can imagine).

We were always told that you were supposed to be supplemented with fresh fruit & veg every so often to deal with the lack of fiber, but you can guess how often that happened in the field.

the accompanying article is much better, "A Taste of Home in Foil Packets and Powder" ~ http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/05/weekinreview/05gilbertson....

The bit that caught my eye, "Australians get a dark-brown spreadable yeast-paste treat called Vegemite, for example". I have a picture of the item being described here ~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/bootload/4961948487/ which came from a PR1M (Patrol Ration One Man) which I used earlier this year marching 240km for a lost bet on house prices ~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/bootload/collections/7215762379...

Vegemite is similar to Marmite that's common in Britain and former colonies. It's loaded with vitamins that can be hard to get in certain situations (like when meat is short).

It tastes like a combination of steak, Guinness and soy sauce.

> It tastes like a combination of steak, Guinness and soy sauce.

That's amazingly accurate except its like a thousand steaks, 1000 pints of Guinness and 1000 litres of soy sauce in a 200ml jar.

It's impossible to get over how intense the taste is. Even a wafer thin coating of it is too much on toast.

I have two giant jars (910 g/2 lb each!) of Vegemite, one of which is approaching 2/3 empty. It's lovely stuff, though I can understand people hating it - it's concentrated and has an intense flavor, and people who don't know better probably use waaay too much.

It tastes kind of like yeasty soy sauce that has been boiled down to a salty, thick black spread (or very dark, mushroomy miso). It's great scratched on buttery toast or grilled cheese, or as part of a soup stock. It's made from beer yeast dregs, and is loaded with umami and B vitamins. I highly recommend adding some to soup stock, especially vegetarian soups. It adds a lot of depth. I haven't ever tried marmite (as elblanco mentions), but everything I've read has made them sound similar.

(I'm not Australian. I'm from Michigan, actually...)

> I highly recommend adding some to soup stock, especially vegetarian soups

But can vegetarians eat bacteria? They are animals too.

That depends on how neurotic they are. (Laziest trolling ever, PS. Back to slashdot with you.)

I'm suggesting it specifically because vegetarian soups tend to have less umami (the savory, "meaty"/MSG flavor). Non-veg cooks can just simmer bones, etc., but vegetarians need to get umami from mushrooms, grilled root vegetables, boiled parmesan reggiano rinds (which are totally awesome, BTW), miso, etc., and vegemite is another option.

It's quite cheap (if you buy it in "I'm going backpacking forever and may not make it back to Australia"-sized jars) and keeps forever (what's it going to do...become more salty?), so it's pretty convenient.

Not trolling, I am just amused at the arbitrary lines-in-the-sand I occasionally see vegetarians and vegans drawing, and was curious about their outlook on this matter.

A lot of people have identities based on loud-but-poorly-thought-out politics/ideologies. Vocal / recent-convert / squeamish teenage vegetarians are hardly unique in this regard, and nor does it mean that intelligent people haven't arrived at similar conclusions for reasons that aren't vapid. As with most things, though, the loud "I believe so hard in cause X" people tend to drown out the thoughtful ones. (Also, the vegetarians I've known have been more pragmatic than the vegans, who are generally more ideological.)

The only group I've seen seriously struggle with the whole "OMG I'm killing bacteria by breathing, what should I do" issue are the Jains, and I find them pretty silly. (I'm not a vegetarian, but when I was...I still found them pretty silly.)

Some vegetarians are amazing cooks, too. Constraints can really drive creativity.

They're not. We're closer to plants than we are to bacteria.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-domain_system

I doubt science matters to most veg's I've known.

Some vegans try not to eat bacteria. It's usually not a problem for vegetarians.

You're probably thinking of Jains, not vegans.

Close I guess. I'm thinking more of recent convert Buddhist Vegan types. One gave me a 30 minute discussion over the current thinking in their particular vegan community...basically it amounted to being an absolutely impossible task to avoid eating bacteria so they can stay on the list of consumables, but everybody should be mindful of the lives they are snuffing out.

It was all rather eye-rolling. I can definitely see Jains getting in on that nonsense.

Which is pretty funny - Gautama emphasized a practical "middle path" rather than some extremist monastic malarkey, specifically because that sort of crap completely detaches you from daily life.

I've found it useful time and time again to be wary of recent converts of all stripes, whether it's Veganism, Objectivism, Haskell, etc.

> Gautama emphasized a practical "middle path" rather than some extremist monastic malarkey

If I remember, enlightenment was not found in the extremes under Kaundinya.

That message really seems to be lost I think. Both in the purposeful following of an extreme ideal, or in not being mindful of extreme habits.

Even if one is not a Buddhist, the concept of the middle path can be wonderfully freeing from expectations of extreme ideologies that sometimes ferment under civilizations.

Yep, the Buddhist stories say that he spent a while as a rich prince, then some sort of eXtreme(TM) yogi, and neither really worked out for him.

The popular American impression of Buddhism is pretty weird - historically, it's heavily skewed towards Japanese Zen Buddhism, but secondhand, from the Beats* . The way people talk about Zen, you'd think it had antioxidants or something.

* Due to their infatuation with the San Francisco Zen Center, Shunryu Suzuki, etc.

I like Vegemite better myself. It's less intense of a flavor.

Could you describe the difference a little more? I'm really curious, but when I've seen Marmite here in the states, it's always been so ludicrously overpriced (for a little jar) that I've skipped it.

I haven't had Marmite in quite a while. But if memory serves, the savoriness (smell and flavor) was really more intense -- it's hard to describe, almost like burnt steak ground up into a paste. Vegemite always seemed to be more palatable to me.

I guess the best way to compare the two is Guinness extra stout vs. regular Guinness.

Unless you really like it, you probably won't use much of either -- it can go for a very long time. I personally like to use it like a seasoning to add savoriness to my cooking.

Vegemite is predominately Aussie, and there are 2 different kinds of Marmite - New Zealand and UK. You find the New Zealand stuff in Australia and NZ; the UK stuff most other places. NZ marmite is black, UK marmite is more brown.

They all taste different, but most likely uniformly awful unless you grew up with it.

"... I have two giant jars (910 g/2 lb each!) of Vegemite ..."

The biggest tins (yes, tins) I found of Vegemite was in Colac at local grocery store weighing in at 5Kg. I wish I had a photo. Sounds like you, @silentbicycle have an acquired taste for the stuff. Love offering it to American folk who usually accuse me of trying to poison them. Marmite is similar but there is a distinct taste difference. Both do well as stocks.

I feel like applying for a job at the New York Times just so I can fix their terrible Flash-based gallery software which is used in this article and many others recently. Totally kills the otherwise-interesting browsing experience for me. HTML5 would be more than sufficient for this.

I'm curious, but how does flash detract from the browsing experience/ or how would html5 add to the browsing experience?

To me it just seems like choosing one programming language over another...

The Flash is buggy; when I mouse over the items, the little label doesn't "unfold" until about 10 seconds after I move my mouse out of the photo. I can see what it's trying to do -- it unfolds for an excruciating split second -- but I can't interact with the movie.

HTML works on more devices, requires fewer resources for an application like this, and usually works more reliably in my recent experience. Why use Flash for this interface?

So would HTML 4.

Or HTML <insert any version with embeddable images and hypertext links>.

From the article: “Combat espresso,” on the other hand, is brutal. The creamer, instant coffee and sugar are poured directly into one’s mouth and then washed down with water.

I noticed that a lot of this food is tinged with red or orange- which seems to be because it's high in protein. That got me to thinking- it must be difficult to be a vegetarian or a vegan in the army.

Which also got me to thinking- should you have the right to insist on vegetarian/vegan food? Not only is it more expensive and more of a problem to provide, but you are a tool of the army, and you probably do your job for them better when you get enough protein.

How are vegetarian protein sources more expensive? Many are quite cheap (if sometimes bland). Most beans keep well and are easy to ship and prepare in bulk, which certainly suits the mess hall. I don't see how it'd be a huge logistics issue (compared to shipping/handling chicken, for example). I've never been in the military, but I've worked in a deli, and handling chicken sucks.

Also, the whole vegetarian "protein deficiency" thing has been pretty thoroughly debunked, unless you only eat potato chips. It's surprisingly difficult to eat a diet that won't give you at least a minimum of protein without dying from e.g. pellegra or beri-beri first. (Maybe not enough protein for hardcore bodybuilders, but certainly enough to live well.)

It's more a problem of people just not eating stuff that's been slogged halfway across the planet and deposited into an active combat zone. So they try to supply menu items that'll get eaten.

That being said, there's usually a vegetarian meal in every box of MREs.

Fair enough. I bet a lot of soldiers probably want to eat something that reminds them of home, and dried beans probably rank alongside powdered eggs.

The vegan/vegetarian diet problem is very real, and it is not just protein. You can very easily miss out pretty severely on a lot of things just by cutting meat out of your diet (iron, for example), and you do have to work hard to make sure you maintain a balanced diet. I don't see this as a problem for MREs, as composition has been pretty well solved, and I doubt it makes it any harder to solve the perishable problem.

Eating a balanced diet isn't hard as long as you don't eat the same thing basically every day (i.e. fast food). I think it's probably a non-issue, except for (say) naive teenage vegetarians - it's only a problem if you cut out meat but don't replace it with anything. I've done my research - if you have specific examples to the contrary, I'm all ears.

I ate a vegetarian diet for seven or eight years, a vegan diet for a few months* along the way, and have had a primarily* * vegetarian diet for years since then. I give blood regularly (I'm AB+, a rare donor blood type), and I've never, ever, ever had a problem with low iron - it's usually been quite high. While that's only one data point, it seems consistent with what I've read about nutrition - problems mostly occur when people give up meat but still eat a rather monotonous diet. ("In other news: Eating nothing but twinkies and whiskey is bad for you...Film at eleven.")

* I'm a cooking geek, and was interesting where those constraints would lead me.

* * same, plus fish and occasional Italian and French/Vietnamese charcuterie (Bánh mì!), but I cook/eat vegetarian by default.

> I'm a cooking geek

hence, you should have no trouble. :)

I wonder how many people downvoting me even know what charcuterie is, let alone have done it. :)

Besides: Lentils, spinach, and broccoli have iron. How many vegetarians don't eat at least one of those regularly? (Other cliches: vitamin B-12 - Vegans might have a problem, vegetarians are fine. Calcium - "Dark green leafy vegetables". Do vegetarians eat those? Oh. Wait...do carnivores eat those?)

A vegetarian who eats fish is no problem at all. Impossible for the army, because fish is so finicky, but in terms of nutrition ANYBODY could rock a vegetarian + fish diet.

This is, of course, because fish is just a specific kind of meat, so nutritionally it's not vegetarian in the slightest.

For years I was a vegetarian + fish guy. I hate pork, my family boycotts lamb, and I didn't have a taste for beef. Nowadays I eat the token hamburger every few weeks, because I've noticed I feel a lot better for it.

We call you a "pescatarian".

"I noticed that a lot of this food is tinged with red or orange..."

This is kind of a sick comment, but I had to share since you reminded me about it with your observation:

I worked as a consultant for AmeriQual Foods for a little while...they're one of the main suppliers of MREs to the DOD. While I was there, I saw a dude accidentally cut most of his thumb off and bleed into a vat of food. A few of the workers SWORE that they still packaged the food and shipped it out...although, based on my experience with the company, I find that very hard to believe. It was probably just grim factory humor.

One of my best friends also worked at a company that supplied temp workers to AmeriQual. Not too long after 9/11, they had a scare because terrorists were supposedly trying to infiltrate their temp workforce (allegedly after finding the corporate address on MRE packaging that was improperly discarded.) I don't think anything ever came of it, but my friend was going crazy because of all the extra paperwork.

In the case of the Canadian meal, the image isn't really representative of the variety of meals that exist. (See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Individual_Meal_Pack for the list of entrees in 2005.) Certainly meat features in the majority, but every soldier can expect a vegetarian meal with some frequency. Choosing her example meals, I think it's possible that the article's author was somewhat biased toward names like "Swiss steak with Spanish sauce" and away from pasta, baked beans and other commonly canned foods.

It's already been suggested that providing vegetarian meals is a logistical nonissue. (Canadian soldiers are also entitled to Kosher and Halal meals, and I can't imagine that that's uncommon.) But it's easy to imagine military professionals arguing the opposite. Logistics, tactics, and esprit de corps are used to justify several kinds of bigotry and obstinacy in Western militaries. It seems to me that, as a rule of thumb, legitimate military concerns do not easily justify lower standards of tolerance, human rights, or, (as Julien Assange will agree) openness. Canada has rejected at least two of these arguments experimentally by allowing openly gay service members (unlike the US) and by permitting women to serve in every trade (unlike the US and the UK).

Love the moist towelette in the American pack.

Is smoking still popular in the field?

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