Ask HN: How do I explain a resume gap after taking a sabbatical? | Hacker News Reader

Ask HN: How do I explain a resume gap after taking a sabbatical?

85 pointsrootsudo81 comments

I've been off work for a year, and been doing minor projects/freelancing for some small companies as I backpack and travel around Asia.

Recently, I've been trying to find remote gigs/office jobs, and I've gotten feedback that my resume gap is troublesome.

I pass tech interviews, and I've gotten an offer or two that I declined due to not meeting salary/lifestyle requirements (but now looking back maybe I should've taken them.)

Should I just add a few projects I did on my resume? They're really minor and involve basic Windows sysadmin stuff that can be done in a week or two.

Or, alternatively, how do I re-word it so it doesn't seem like I'm desperate? I've had recruiters from the typical bucketshops of Apex, Cybercoders and misc say "you're a good candidate but that gap is troublesome" in not so nice words.

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It's easy for people to criticize. Ignore them. Recruiters want easy wins so they can get paid.

There will always be people who are negative about X, Y or Z. Find your own way. If you start believing them that is trouble because it'll come across in any interview.

Be proud of the time you took out to travel around Asia. "I had a fantastic time, learning about new cultures, broadening my mind, meeting new people from all over" etc. On top of that you were resourceful enough to pick up projects/freelance work over that period. Many people will be jealous of this. Speak to this part of them.

Not sure if you had prior experience or just graduated. Either way I would put it on your resume along with your travel. Something like:

2017 - Travel around Asia while freelancing. Here's a list of freelance projects I worked on: - Sysadmin running servers.

2014-2016 - Software engineer, Midwest city - Regular software job

People who don't understand why you took time out to travel around Asia, are people you probably don't want to work with. Think of it as a culture litmus test.

If you're back and not currently working, you could pick up freelance work or work on your own project or open source. This will give you something to talk about when talking to recruiters. i.e. What are you doing now? "I take freelance work and am also working on this great project which does X, Y, Z".

Also believe in yourself. You are valuable. When speaking to potential companies interview them to see if there's a fit. Be like I am really looking for the right opportunity and X, Y, Z. I'm not willing to jump on anything....(even if it is not the case, play hard to get. People want things that are hard to get.... not things that come easily)

This is very true!

When you start interviewing you'll see plenty of recruiters who think it's awesome what you did and will want to know all about it And you'll meet those who look down on it for some weird reason ("what do you mean you want to be free/control your own life?").

But the inspired ones will help you all they can to see if you and the company are a match. The best recruiters (IMO) are your temporary & one-shot career counselors: if they're empathetic and highly intelligent, then they are information highways between you and the prospect employer. You all have only to win in a situation like that!

Very much this.

Take a long look at the companies providing feedback around your time off being troublesome. Likely, you wouldn't want to work with them.

> People who don't understand why you took time out to travel around Asia, are people you probably don't want to work with. Think of it as a culture litmus test.

This ^^^^^ Was about to say it! So true.

THIS!!! Freelancing is still working. Showcase it, don't hide it, however you have to learn to _sell_ yourself better. For instance, I would put "Private Consulting" rather than Freelancing on your resume.

It would be even better if you had your own company, then you could put "Backpack Consulting Inc." on your resume ;) Don't hate the player, hate the game :)

Put it in your resume, include detail about everything you did.

Don't listen too hard to recruiters, when I got back I started wondering if it was an issue, and then something came along.

(That feeling of "will I work again" seems to happen every time I'm between contracts, after the first month or so).

Here's the section of my C.V. from when I went travelling + coding my own projects:

Dec 2014 – Jan 2016 Travelling + Open Source

Audiovisual work and creative coding - many improvements on the creative coding environment Shoebot.

Prototypes built included a midi mapper, music visualisers and simple VJ tools, culminating in using them to VJ for a band in Taipei.

Submitted fixes to OpenGL/Shader tutorials as I completed them. Implemented Vext to make it easier to use graphic and gui packages with virtualenv such as Panda3D, Gtk and Qt, it broke 100 downloads within 3 months of being uploaded to Pypi.

Companies are looking for energy and experience, but by time with experience the energy goes down, basically you start to -at least slowly- burn out. So... after a sabbatical, you supposedly full with energy and a motivation to work better. And you have the skills and the experience.

If a company only cares of the lines written on the resume, it doesn't really matter you filled it or answered really good in the interview, there will be problems later on.

But if a company knows, it's not just sum of the parts but as a whole who you're and how you approach life and work is that all matters, then there will be no problem telling what you did in these times.

You don't have to go to Asia... maybe you just want to focus on some other stuff or have some time off. But also you went to Asia, so you use this time for yourself, in a way you thought would be better for you. I think this is very important aspect of a professional. If you don't know how to allocate your time and energy, you're not efficient.

You did something most people even can not dare to think of doing it. Don't try to please people, be yourself and this way you will eliminate all the pretentious people/companies and will find a better match for you. Don't settle for what people say to you, just because they can't do it.

When bucket-shop recruiters criticize your resume, remember that they don't know crap about doing the work. They are just salescritters trying to sell you, and they don't know how to fit you into one of the boxes that they've got on a shelf.

As a hiring manager, I've stopped talking to bucketshops entirely. They may have a bunch of names, but they add zero value beyond that, and are certainly not worth the fee.

By all means, list the travel on your resume, list the small projects you've done.

I would put Freelance / Travel Sabbatical as a "job" and then list some highlights of your learning / experience from them if you've also done that for the other jobs you listed.

You are wasting your time with Cybercoders anyway. No quality hiring manager will give them the time of day, let alone hire them to get candidates for their company. They are literally the sleazy used car version of a recruiter and I wouldn’t take their advice on anything.

Send me your resume (see profile) and I’ll be happy to see what I can do to help!

"I took a sabbatical." would seem like a good place to start and finish.

Agreed.

"1 year sabbatical, backpacked around Asia."

If I saw that on a resume I'd think it was awesome. (...and I've hired dozens of people).

“Why?”

“I’ve always wanted to get a true world perspective on things and decided to get it out of my system while I’m young. Now I’m ready to refocus on my career and apply what I’ve learned to the right company.”

> "you're a good candidate but that gap is troublesome. Only two weeks after finishing an elite school you went straight to a corporate 9 to 5 job and never demonstrated any personal initiative, ability to take risks or minimal desire to understand the world around you"

There, fixed it.

Instead of worrying about it, why not turn it into a strength?

Do you have any pictures or journals from your travels? If so, build out a long-form article or better yet a small site. Explore why you went and what you learned, how the experience changed you, etc etc. You can reference this new destination on your resume rather than leaving a blank spot.

And if related your job, make the site yourself so you have a technical project to show... put the code on github.

Yes, it is good idea to add those small projects. More relevant they are to the job. More points for you. By not adding those. People reading your resume will wonder what you have been doing in this period?

You can also add some of your personal or side projects as well.

The idea is to show them that you were somehow active during this period, either by doing small gigs, or by doing your own stuff or even by reading books or taking online courses.

I will highly recommend you read these guides

http://www.codespaghetti.com/cv-tips http://www.codespaghetti.com/interview-success

I really hop you will be able to find the kind of job you are looking for.

I only took 5 months off, so it doesn't look as "bad" as yours, but I found spinning it as self-learning worked as a positive for me.

So in the interview (I only did one…) I talked about how I wanted to take a break to try new styles of software dev and learn things that you don't often learn in corporate environments to be a better dev etc. If your potential employer cares about "passion" (shudder) you can spin it pretty well, because you're clearly so passionate about software dev you want to forgo salary so you can concentrate on being a better dev.

FWIW while I did do a bunch of things like that (learnt clojure!), I also spent nearly a month watching YouTube 8hrs a day… you just fail to mention that bit in interviews ;-)

When I'm hiring, I don't care about gaps - provided you've done something productive with yourself. Unexplained gaps (or just stating "sabbatical" / "unemployed") are a red flag.

List it like a job, what you've done and achieved. How does that break make you different to the others?

All else being equal, I'd hire the one who's took a break from their environment, learned new cultures, and made the most of live.

Just out of interest, why is an unexplained gap a "red flag"? A red flag for what exactly?

The chances that someone working for 10 years non-stop needs a break and might be burnt out, is higher than someone who worked for 10 years, had a break, and is now looking for work again.

> Just out of interest, why is an unexplained gap a "red flag"? A red flag for what exactly?

A red flag that work and being productive is not your top life priority. Obviously, an employer would prefer to only hire people obsessed about work if possible.

To me, a gap isn't a bad thing. I said "unexplained gap". It's just one of many signals, not a show-stopper. I'll ask about it, and if I'm told "I did nothing" then that's not a good signal.

I've also been unemployed for about year (wife was ill), but I used that time productively and took it as an opportunity to retrain.

I look for someone who's self-motivated.

Having a 'break' shouldn't need to involve working in the area you are having a break from in order not to look bad.

I would be more suspicious of someone who doesn't know how to have a break. That would be my red flag... "so you spent your year off in front of a computer?"..."um, yeh, I am self-motivated". Red Flag blows in wind.

If your less than 30 simply state you wanted to get your travel itch scratched before you make plans to settle down.

The culture of being "employable" and fitting a certain mold is an enslavement strategy by a subset of the corporate world.

Unless you are poverty stricken, would you really want a role that says "Only willing drones wanted"?

Yes, being smart and getting things done is important. I have no idea how this correlates with a polished "employee" image.

They're just jealous you've done that ;) Be proud of your sabbatical. I'm planning on doing similar.

I did something similar twice. Once when I was younger where I traveled and lived in China and only did a little English teaching. And again 5 years ago, I took math classes in a new city where I moved to for my wife's job until her position was more certain and then I got regular employment.

I've changed jobs and interviewed some afterwards: some employers make a big deal (negative) about these gaps. While others seem mildly impressed that I did something somewhat different. They tend to pay less attention now that a few years have passed. I think it is also because such gaps are more common these days and because losing employees to other companies is probably bigger problem than sabbaticals.

Talk about your passions and what you did to stay busy. Tell recruiters and interviewers about your passion to stay busy while traveling and how you didn't bulk at the chance to take a risk.

Be prepared to discuss any issues that arrose at your last job that encouraged you to take the time away.

Hopefully you have a positive reference or two from your freelance work or prior jobs.

A year of travel is an understandable and common activity in our field. A company who understands this is also a company that might understand when you need personal time down the road.

You have been 'busy' all this while( even if it's a sabbatical). That's important, that is what you need to project to your potential companies on your application.

Create a personal website(if you don't have one) and put up your personal projects that project you in a positive light. Github is also great.

When a company receives a resume, there's no way to quantify and judge what the candidate has done in the past year. Give them something to think about.

I have marked Cybercoders as spam and you should too. They lazily bombard you with irrelevant jobs. There are other tech recruiting firms(Bay Area and LA) that have better reach and more understanding of candidates profiles. LinkedIn is great for networking and reaching out to recruiters and seeking out referrals.

Mark up your sabbatical period on your resume. Write in there "Traveled the world exploring new cultures, worked on personal projects, taught myself new skills to grow forward." Mention a supporting online link in this section. Nothing to hide here IMO

On your website, you can write down experiences you gained in detail, while working on your open source projects, what you learnt. This is a huge plus. Many candidates send in resumes without a proof of their past projects. You already got this, try to work it into an interview call + offer.

This is bullshit.

If it's a problem that you may put your life before your career, then you don't want work for them.

We need to change that culture little by little.

Here's what I would say: "This gap is troublesome to you? FUCK. YOU. I had some money aside and decided to take it easy for once, and not rush back to the petty corporate word where people roll their eyes when I take 3 weeks for Christmas. If you can't fathom that, I'm going to get my skills elsewhere."

Is this a US thing?

Did this and found a remote job no problem here in Germany.

Where did you look for European remote work ?

I found my job 2015 at a startup in Frankfurt via AngelList. (I'm living in Stuttgart)

I found my job in Cologne. The language of my office is English. Did you have to know German for your job?

I also found work in Germany for a Startup (originally I am from the USA). I used Stepstone.de. In my interview we talked specifically about my sabbatical and I think it helped get me the job.

You should add the projects in your resume. It will people understand that you were still doing some work, during your gap.

While reviewing CVs I would love to see "Took some time to travel through Asia", followed by a few lines amongst which was written "Helped small business in <some city in China> to improve their system administration".

And that would definitely lead to a interesting conversation while interviewing :)

But ofcourse, that could just be me.

The key is to be open and transparent about what you did. One major reason that companies are rationally worried about resume gaps is that gaps could mean anything - for all they know you were running a criminal enterprise or locked up in a mental institution. It could also mean that you couldn't find a job for other reasons that may no longer be documented - there are things that wouldn't show up in your background search after a period of time for instance. Continuous employment history isn't desirable because it's important that you were always working, but because it is verifiable in a way that rules out certain possibilities. Other than explaining your situation in a transparent way that soothes these fears, if you worked for or with others on some projects during this time, you could offer them as extra references.

Say you took a sabbatical? Lots of people take sabbaticals. I'm surprised anyone has cared. I'd maybe explicitly put "sabbatical" on your resume so people know it was on purpose rather than that time being due to being unwillingly unemployed.

When reviewing a candidate, I don't think I've ever focused on the work timeline and making it complete. What matters to me is that you have experience in the thing I need help in. Everything else is a bonus. I would be asking about the things on the resume and trying to get more detail which would help me understand how much actual experience you have.

A recruiter's prime objective is to spend the least amount of time to get the person the highest paid job. That's how they get paid. I'm actually very annoyed that companies use recruiting firms so much, they are terrible and don't actually get you good candidates, just qualified candidates.

I just went through a similar experience after a 2 year gap traveling Asia and Australia. Are you looking for work in the USA?

My experience in interviews in Europe is that employers were genuinely interested in my time abroad and wanted to learn about my experiences. I am applying for jobs in Europe where a gap year is much more common. If recruiters are telling you the sabbatical is a problem they are not connecting you with the right employers. Every person I've talked to entering the job market after a year traveling did not have difficulties with the sabbatical as long as you can sell it that you were not partying the whole time. Good luck!

Expressing what you did during your break without discomfort would demonstrate a confidence in your skillset.

A person like that comes out as someone who knows what he knows. and hence can take risks.

on the downside, most HR folks never get this. so sending resume/CV has lower chances of conversion.

A better way I have found is to go referral way. Find people or network with people in space and get referrals. Have them connect me directly with hiring manager. This opens up channel for discussion.

All the best. Hang in there!

What's to explain?

It's BS that this is a problem.

I have various breaks in my resume, including for layoffs, working on my own things etc.

Just have a reasonable narrative and you'll be fine.

"I took a sabbatical". If the company has a problem with that they are not a good place to work anyway.

Given that, looking for jobs sucks, a couple of rejections can easily make people feel really down. So after some failed attempts I know it's hard to keep the mindset that you are also interviewing the companies, but do try to keep in mind that you deserve a good work environment!

Fill the time honestly with what you were doing and how it made you a better person. It will make you stand out from the crowd and show a depth of character and introspection that some employers will appreciate.

Move on from the recruiters that want to churn you out. Find some other options with solo recruiters or go at the companies you're interested in yourself.

Yes, put the projects on there. It shows that you are self-disciplined enough to complete things even when not in a regular job.

The gap on the resume is troubling because they don't know what you did during that time, so fill the gap. I would go with a combination of suggestions here.

"While on sabbatical to fulfill my dream of backpacking around Asia, I helped cover expenses by taking on small projects of limited scope, such as... "

You don't even need to mention that you did small gigs. Just say you took the year off to travel.

From the recruiters POV, that should be sufficient. The only concern would be that you might want to do that again in the next couple of years, so assure them that this is not the case.

Two questions: for any job with exceptional responsibility or skill required, has there ever been a candidate with a resume gap where the story behind it did not make them more interesting?

When you see a gap, what do you really think happened in it and what does it signify or mean?

Ignore recruiters, There is nothing wrong with listing a one year sabbatical in your resume.

Just say you were an independent consultant, and list a couple of those projects. Fluff it up a bit "network and server administration for small businesses..." It's pretty easy to talk around this stuff.

So weird. I did this last year and people had nothing but great things to say about taking a sabbatical. Maybe the problem is you’re going through the big enterprisey recruiter shops.

I'd avoid talking about your backpacking and instead talk about it as "got involved in the asian startup scene, offering my sysadmin services to foreign companies"

Just say you freelanced during that period. You can come up with a few projects to list during that period.

Fill gap with "consulting" and list impactful projects to demonstrate your expertise.

Do you want to work for a place that would discount you because you took a sabbatical?

Out of curiosity how much experience did you have before the sabbatical?

If companies are actually filtering based on a year off (what recruiters say definitely deserves a filter), that seems like it could be super troublesome if not legally, then ethically for sure. That’s a filter that many parents would become trapped in.

I'm a rockstar ninja was in a cast and attending rehab.

"I took a sabbatical to backpack around Asia."

Lie, you owe HR and Recruiter-reps nothing.

list yourself as a consultant for the time you took off.

Mar 2017 - Feb 2018

RootSudo Ltd

Chief Architect

Blah blah

Lie and say you went travelling in Asia. That's what I did.

Its a red flag. If you are capable of taking of for an year, whats stopping you from taking off again. No one wants to hire someone who will leave after sometime. And there are probably other hires who dont have this red flag.

Not denying that some people might think that, but such reasoning doesn't make sense. Even if someone hasn't taken time off before, they're still capable of doing so in the future.

If you have more than one employer listed on your resume, what's stopping you from quitting the company that might hire you? No one wants to hire someone who will leave after some time for a new job.

It's not a good analogy the way you put it, because having more than one employer in and of itself is so very common that it's hard to be biased against it.

However a dinstinctly high frequency of changing jobs, say in the 90th percentile among candidates (and how many people take sabbaticals?), now that could be a red flag already. And for exactly that reason - it implies the candidate is relatively likely to jump teams again.

Hence it is not absurd to assume quite a few employers would prefer someone who worked at 2 places throughout the past few years over someone who worked at 5 - all other things being equal, obviously.

I am not arguing whether it's right or justified - or to what extent. That's another story.

You're right that constant job jumping, or several sabbaticals would be a red flag, but I don't think that a single year off would be.

I was actually considering chasing another job last week, which would have better pay and more responsibilities, but decided not to, because I've only been in my current job for 6 months. It really isn't a good look if you're constantly jumping ship.

> You're right that constant job jumping, or several sabbaticals would be a red flag, but I don't think that a single year off would be.

Probably not - all I'm saying is that a single gap year doesn't carry the same weight as a one job switch decision. The conversion rate cannot be, and isn't one-to-one, so to speak; unless we're going ad absurdum

> It's not a good analogy the way you put it, because having more than one employer in and of itself is so very common that it's hard to be biased against it.

Your parent compared one (1) gap year in a resume being a red flag for the explicit reason that they might leave again, to someone else having switched employers atleast once, for the exact same reason given by GP.

It's a totally apt analogy. Leaving is leaving.

Your further reasoning doesn't change this analogy. Many employment changes in a resume is no different to many gap years, in regards to the initially stated premise.

I disagree. Taking a gap year is a bigger career disruption than simply changing employers. It's not by coincidence that one is much more common than the other.

The willingness to do former indicates lesser degree of dependence (or sense of dependence) on an ongoing employment than mere willingness to trade one job for another. That's why the "leaving is leaving" line of argument doesn't speak to me.

That's the thinking in some countries. Japan for example.

I didnt mean to imply that the perception is entirely fair. Infact, I think everyone should take a sabbatical and for more years. It helps in your personal growth which enriches your professional approach.

That being said, the red flag is how recruiters see this. And no argument on the internets will change this perception. Recruiters spend a lot of time and money hiring tech workers - the last thing they want is any indication that the guy is not 'stable'. Its a demand/supply problem.

The only 'solution' to this problem is if everyone starts taking sabbaticals and it stops being a big deal.

I took a sabbatical from late 2016-early 2017. I didn't have any trouble with obtaining a new position after I ended my time off. Any company that would've given me trouble with my break isn't a company I want to work at.

That said, I should note that the two primary things I did during my sabbatical are pretty much the antithesis of screwing around. I started a very successful non-profit and released a very well received update to an open source consumer-focused app that gets used by a couple hundred thousand people. So, YMMV.

I want to work for a company that is good enough to make us want to be there, not to trap people there so they cannot leave. There are also companies out there that understand the reality of the tech world, and expect people will leave after a few years. Any company who wants to lock you in so you cannot leave... that is the red flag -- Run away fast.

Every company wants to lock you in because hiring and training somebody is extremely expensive. Some companies just do it in a less obvious way.

Every company wants to reduce the cost of employee churn. Good companies to work for do so by building an environment where you want to be. Bad companies lock you in. They both want you to stay, but their methods for doing so tell you a ton about who they are.

Another interpretation is they've already gone and done a year for themselves and are now ready to work. Whereas everyone else could vanish at any time in a midlife crisis etc. The idea this is a red flag when hiring someone is madness to me.

That's BS though. The fact that your employment history shows more than one employer shows that you're capable of taking off, maybe not for travel, but at least to another country.

You're almost guaranteed that someone you're hiring will leave after some time.

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