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Comment by freehunter | Hacker News Reader

Since I've seen this be a very controversial statement here in the past, I'd just like to point out to everyone that American drivers on four lane roads are not expecting pedestrians to be in the middle of the road and not at a crosswalk. That is not a normal thing to happen in America, and no one expects it to happen. It is a very rare situation.

--edit: okay guys... no where did anyone argue that you shouldn't be watching for pedestrians crossing. Stop yelling "gotcha!" like you caught me in a trap. What I'm arguing against is the common refrain on these articles that there is no such thing as jaywalking and the pedestrian has the right to the road over the car. Maybe it's true in Europe judging by comments on previous articles, but it's not common in the US. It's illegal.

Congratulations on expertly knocking down your own strawman, though.

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I have driven in the US for over 20 years and have the opposite experience. I am constantly looking for people, animals (deer are quite dangerous to hit, and they move _way_ faster) and lost count long long ago how many times I have been in very similar or worse situations.

It's not even remotely rare. Drive on campus or downtown in AZ for a more than a few minutes.

Yes, obviously you should watch for objects unexpectedly crossing the road. No one argued you shouldn't. The point is, some people have and will still argue that the pedestrian has more right to the road than the driver and pedestrians should be allowed to cross anywhere they please. But that's not how it works in the US, crossing roads like this is illegal unless it's done at a crosswalk, and normally people are not stupid enough to do it with oncoming traffic.

The proponents of pre-programmed cars would be wise to stop blaming "humans breaking the rules" for their mistakes.

You're not even arguing against what I've said. You are not the intended audience for my comment.

"obviously you should watch for objects unexpectedly crossing the road. No one argued you shouldn't."

Strawman. I argued the opposite. You made the grossly incorrect assertion "That is not a normal thing to happen in America, and no one expects it to happen. It is a very rare situation."

If preprogrammed cars cant handle random objects in unexpected places then they are uber DOA.

There is a limerick to this effect with the same message -- you may have (or think you have) the right-of-way, but as a pedestrian you should never insist on it.

Actually, the yielding rules for pedestrians and drivers vary widely from state to state. See this page for a summary:

http://www.ncsl.org/research/transportation/pedestrian-cross...

But the legality is to some extent beside the point. Autonomous vehicles aren't going to be tuned to pedestrian yielding rules state-to-state, simply because hitting a pedestrian is never an acceptable outcome if avoidable no matter who is in the right/wrong.

I think you can generally say that there are few countries where one would expect people to cross a four lane road without watching out for cars. I'm not sure why you would think that to be a controversial statement, especially considering that the person being hit in the video is also not just walking on the street but crossing it.

Obviously the concrete level of awareness that drivers usually have is probably related to a lot of other circumstances (light conditions/amount of traffic etc.)

I don't think it to be a controversial statement, I know it to be controversial. Just look at the other reply posted at exactly the same time as yours with someone saying they totally expect pedestrians crossing illegally wearing black at night.

The last thread about this contained a very long argument from some Europeans who disagree with the core concept of "jaywalking". Some people really do hold the belief that roads are for pedestrians first and cars last, contrary to US law.

That is strange. Maybe they were not talking about 4 lane roads? Because on smaller streets I would also expect pedestrians, especially if there is not boardwalk. But in my opinion this is indifferent to the situation at hand anyway because this video is about somebody crossing the street without respecting the cars right of way, which can't be deemed common behaviour by anybody.

>which can't be deemed common behaviour by anybody.

Judging by the replies in this thread, it would seem some American roads are more pedestrian than they are pavement.

I've never seen a 4 lanes road in Europe.

You've never seen a median-divided road that has two lanes going to each direction? Have you actually ever been to Europe?

We're talking about 4 lanes in the same direction.

First of all, I don't think we are. Also, I live in a modestly sized European city of about 650k citizens (excl. metro), and even we do have some sections of road with 4 lanes in each direction, and in intersections, even more. I'm quite sure bigger cities have more of those, even in Europe.

There's no specific 'no pedestrian' signage, and there are no nearby marked crossings. If that road were in [for example] the UK, Australia, NZ, or much of Europe, the car wouldn't have had right of way.

I'm currently in Europe (Germany) and if I cross a 4 lane road thinking I have the right of way, I'm dead. Can you point to any road provision that supports your thesis? Because my quick research does not confirm your standpoint. It also seems to defy logical sense to let cars on a 4 lane road stop for pedestrians because there would be an enormous amount of accidents when cars overtake each other

People crossing streets mid block is such a common in pheonix that last week Arizona announced a plan spend $250k on educating the community on this very problem. Pheonix is one of the most dangerous cities for pedestrians and bikers. Pheonix is built for cars not people, a ton of roads are fast 4 Lanes in residential areas.

>the pedestrian has the right to the road over the car. Maybe it's true in Europe judging by comments on previous articles, but it's not common in the US. It's illegal.

You are conflating two different concepts. In every state in the U.S., it is illegal to hit a pedestrian whether or not they are where they are supposed to be. If you see a pedestrian jaywalking then you are required to avoid the pedestrian to the greatest extent possible. Anything less is at least manslaughter.

Wow! You are saying no one in the US expects, or at least consider that could be an obstacle on the street in front of you? It doesn't mean necessarily a pedestrian. An animal? Cargo lost by a truck in front of you?

It is the responsibility of the driver to be alert and try to minimize the impact. Just because a cyclist shouldn't cross a four-lane road in the middle of the night, doesn't mean you shouldn't look for obstacles.

You're not arguing against anything I've said. Read it again.

As an American, this general kind of situation is a reasonably common situation with people and animals (people more in urban environments, large animals more in rural ones, and both in many suburban ones) and something I was taught to be aware of in public school driver's education classes.

The particular combination of speed and distance may not be common, but the general situation isn't rare.

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