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Comment by paulddraper | Hacker News Reader

> undermine your own countries democratic elections on behalf of an adversarial foreign nation state

Citation needed.

https://www.justice.gov/file/1035477/download

Not really, it's common knowledge. There are a pile of dead Russians ex-IC people all over Europe, the existing Mueller indictments, the Crowdstrike DNC Russian APT attributions, all of our own lying eyes...

Funny, I must have missed the Mueller indictments relating to collusion or coordination of any kind (it's coming any day now, though, right?). I've seen a number of process charges. I've seen a handful of Russians charged with, essentially, social media ads and trolling and setting up a Michael Moore rally in NYC. And, of course, Manafort, who is dirty AF (right up there with the Podestas, the Clintons and the rest), but nothing relating to the Trump campaign. And if dead men do tell tales, as you seem to imply, I would think Seth Rich would have quite a story indeed.

> And, of course, Manafort, who is dirty AF (right up there with the Podestas, the Clintons and the rest), but nothing relating to the Trump campaign.

Manafort served as Trump's Campaign manager from June 2016 to August 2016, but I guess that has nothing to do with Trump's Campaign.

Created an account to attempt to derail this conversation into being about Seth Rich and Hillary Clinton. lol.

But your opponent is correct. Manafort indictment is about laundering money he made in Ukraine before 2014. It really has nothing to do with him being a campaign manager in 2016. Moreover, I bet this activities as a campaign manager were examined under microscope, and nothing shady was found, otherwise he would be indicted.

Lets stay rational and stick to facts.

> Lets stay rational and stick to facts.

Sure, let's do that:

1) George Papadopoulos pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI.

2) Michael Flynn pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI.

3) Paul Manafort was indicted on conspiracy, money laundering, false statements, and failure to disclose foreign assets, not just money laundering.

4) Rick Gates similar to Manafort, but has taken a plea deal.

5) 13 Russian nationals and 3 Russian companies indicted on conspiracy charges and identity theft.

6) Richard Pinedo pleaded guilty to an identity theft charge in connection with the Russian indictments, and is cooperating.

7) Alex van der Zwaan pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI about his connections to Rick Gates.

And let's remember they are not 13 random Russians, either.

Perjury != collusion or treason.

Both of those are specific legal definitions. Could you please elaborate on what your point is?

We can only speculate, but if you lie to the FBI, I would assume it's very likely that you have something to hide. Whether those plea deals led further down the rabbit hole to people who were guilty of further crimes we don't know. Maybe a few of them were on that list. Maybe some will get revealed later. I'm hopeful we will uncover the truth in time.

>I bet...

>stick to facts

okay.

FACT: You bet Manafort isn't a traitor.

Bob Mueller would appear to have a different opinion.

https://www.justice.gov/file/1038391/download

Guess who my money is on.

The one without something to prove?

Manafort was just a covfefe boy.

>"Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past."

-Jean Paul-Sartre

You created an account just to tell me that?

@dang, sir, I think you have a problem. Don't let HN be used as a platform to spread disinformation. Emerdata is starting up as speak.

I didn't believe it at first. There's no running from this war.

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