I wonder how Facebook devs feel when they read such posts.
Do they feel rejected ? shameful ?
Does their salary really outweigh this collective disapproval
of their peers ?
I've long been skeptical of the effects of social media though, and I'm taking this job mostly just because doing otherwise seems like a really poor career choice. Plus it seems like Facebook is here to stay, and I can dream of helping to fix the problem instead of just enabling it.
EDIT: Is HN's Facebook hate getting so heated I'm getting down-voted for sending some good vibes to a newgrad about to start her/his first job?
I bet you all took you first job at Doctors Without Borders helping children in Angola. FFS the Waltons are the scourge of this world but I don't blame the kids going off to work at Walmart. I bet a lot of you pay taxes in the US too-- those taxes financed the war in Afghanistan but you didn't move to Morocco, did you?
Give me a break. Let this kid come in with a good attitude, eyes open, loud and proud. Who knows maybe he'll turn some heads. The guy signed and it is a good career move, what's wrong with cheering the guy up. Disappointed at you HN.
But seriously - do we know any single example of an intern coming to a big corp and "saving it" - by that I mean steering it off the dark and deceiving waters and actually bringing it into light for the good of society and people in general??
That's about all though, isn't it? There's a negligible chance you'll actually fix the problem, unless you manage to leak evidence to the media or similar.
I write software for biologists, am I feel I'm much, much happier doing that than I would be working at Facebook.
'Peer' is very flexible. This could be a comparison to people the same age in other careers.
Also, keep in mind that Facebook engineers are constantly surrounded by other Facebook engineers so their SE peers probably do approve. They collectively don't think Facebook is a problem so they implicitly approve of each other.
You are when your job requires you to sidestep your morals.
There are differing levels of how strongly I feel about certain moral values I hold. For example, working for a company that dealt in wholesale killing of others is obviously worse than working for an advertising network. Would I work for doubleclick for $1M a year? Hell yeah. Would I spy on citizens of my country for the same amount? No.
Does that make me not have morals? I don't know.
That doesn't bother me. I still go to the pub after work with friends and have a good time.
Media are the information sourcing and feedback loop for societies. The print media went through its crisis of awareness in the early 20th century. See especially Lippmann's Public Policy.
Not really. Many people just feel they have to use Facebook to connect with the society efficiently. Some people even consider those who don't use Facebook weird.
Or we could have a legal system where everything is forbidden except for those things explicitly allowed.
I hope this is sarcasm.
Slack vs irc
Facebook vs myspace vs geocities
All of these products are designed to be as addictive as possible (to varying degrees). The whole point of of an addiction is that your are there voluntarily. (Not saying facebook is as bad as the things above, just that they are all designed to addict.)
I mean, let's just admit that you don't have to be a Facebook user and you don't have to sign a Facebook TOS for them to accumulate data about you, so it's not quite as cut-and-dry as you make it out to be.
As far as the "good" and "evil" parts of the stack... fair point. I think most devs are somewhat abstracted away from the collectively malicious vision, since most of the constituent parts are relatively benign on their own -- "let's identify faces in photos!", "let's automatically identify faces in photos", etc. It's product folks, or maybe even higher up than that, who connect the powerful pieces produced by devs to actually make Facebook the monster it is today. I'd guess that even the devs who have impact on that vision don't really have the power to dramatically sway that vision, they've got a bit of technical input at best.
Still, have you ever worked on a product you don't believe in? If you're just cashing in a check, I guess it could work, but if you're as idealistic as me you want to work on something that's doing good in the world. Especially when so many tech companies proclaim their intent to "make the world a better place" or "do cool things that matter."
Isn't that the going ethos currently?
Something akin to: Pay me as much as possible, don't ask me to be part of your culture, don't ask me to work more than 40 hours a week, don't ask me to take stock, don't have a mission statement, make sure I'm working on something that is engaging mentally.
It’s wise in the Valley to hold such an opinion but not make it very prominently known. There are a number of people who want your job and will say something more palatable to your employer, and eat your free meal while shipping a feature at 10pm because they buy into the posters on the wall. Many allegations of ageism (but not all) can probably trace back to something like this, in my uninformed gut opinion, because you will almost certainly get replaced by a new grad when the hammer falls. I don’t even see it as personal, but a demonstration of incentives: they can get a loud 40 from you or a quiet 80 from a newly minted BSc. QED.
Just decline invites and push back on over 40. Expressing that attitude at a typical company within this audience basically paints “please lay me off” on your back. When you’re getting into post-senior titling, or you’re really specialized in a tough req to fill, is when that approach becomes more feasible.
As a Facebook user I obviously don't like what they do with the data, but at the same time I think they provide an OK service that is beneficial to many. I wouldn't mind working as a developer there on what I imagine is overwhelming majority of positions.