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Comment by Nokinside | Hacker News Reader

I strongly disagree with your notion.

The results of creativity spreading to the economy can be hampered by the government. But I strongly disagree that creativity and innovation can't flourish under authoritative regime.

Educational system does not create or remove creativity, it's just a common myth. The reason why Chinese students look so mediocre is because they value science and engineering so much. It's seen as a path to good live. The creative people are still there, but there is more mediocrity because there are so many of them.

China: 4.7 million STEM graduates per year = 34 per ten thousand.

US: 0.56 million STEM graduates per year = 17 per ten thousand.

Chinese have adopted market mechanism and Chinese companies compete on global free markets. Government is just coordinating and supporting the industry just like DARPA is doing in the US.

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Perhaps I phrased my point wrong. To me critical thinking/creativity and questioning authority are all intertwined. I see those attributes being emphasized very strongly here (in Canada), and from an outsiders point of view, less strongly in China. I actually didn't think that Chinese students were mediocre at all, my intepretation was that China was exceptionally strong in science and engineering due to that social tendency that you mentioned.

>To me critical thinking/creativity and questioning authority are all intertwined.

And I maintain that this is just a story we tell to ourselves. Can you find anything to back it up.

Two reasons for this.

1) Different cultures express same things differently and get same results using different methods. Direct challenge is not the only way.

2) Chinese are not especially obedient or submissive. Regional riots and unrest that you don't see in the news happen regularly. The way people solve their problems with government is very different from the West. Chinese priorities are in getting ahead in their life, not in political activism. If Chinese government fails to deliver economic growth they will have to deal with more rebellious people.

Using Hoftedes research to compare different cultures: China has similar levels of individualism and their long term orientation is similar to Germany, South Korea and Taiwan, but their cultural uncertainty avoidance very low. It's lower than US, Germany South Korea or Japan.

ps. Cultural comparisons in social sciences contain lots of BS but Hoftede's research is relatively solid. His research in IBM is classic. It has limitations but it is useful.

Thanks! I probably have a biased view so maybe I need to step back and look at what other people are saying. I'll look into Hoftede's research when I have the time.

I might also add that maybe there are divisions within Han Chinese culture that Hoftede's research don't get.

Looking from the west China looks like solid block and Han Chinese who make up 92% of the Chinese population look even more so. Chinese government want's to propagate this view of unity. Maybe Beijing and Canton are culturally more like Germany and Britain or like South Korea and Japan.

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