Microsoft has a dumb idea to make people use its web browser | Hacker News Reader

Microsoft has a dumb idea to make people use its web browser

fastcompany.com

50 pointsokket39 comments

> In the latest preview version of Windows 10, Microsoft’s Mail app will automatically open web links in Edge, even for users who’ve set a different browser as their default.

Let's hope that stays in preview.

However, it isn't an uncommon tactic.

Outlook has occasionally defaulted to Internet Explorer over the default web browser in its past history, though to give the benefit of the doubt, those times were considered "bugs".

Google's GMail on Android tried it once or twice before resorting to embedding a web browser inside itself.

GMail now opens a web view, but that view is powered by the user default's browser. The Google app (the one that powers the voice assistant and the search bar) always uses a Chrome web view instead.

Gmail does this really nicely. I use Brave browser and the web view works perfectly.

Isn't this what got Microsoft (and even Google) the anti-trust attention? Pre-installed apps not working with competitors' products?

On my work PC, I constantly get messages that "[Program] caused a problem, the default app has been reset to Microsoft Photo Viewer" etc. Then, when I change it back manually, Windows simply outright ignores it. Default apps on Windows 10 are a disaster, and I don't see the motivation for doing it. Why does Microsoft care which photo viewer or browser I use?

You might have been hit by a bug involving KB3135173 [0]. A later update fixed it, or modifying the Registry can fix it. Windows 10 seems to have issues if it expects a registry entry to exist, and it doesn't. (You probably have no control over any of this unfortunately, being a work PC).

[0] https://www.ghacks.net/2016/02/16/beware-kb3135173-for-windo...

There's really no good reason for Microsoft to be making these moves. Edge is a very solid browser, and a fairly good choice security-wise, if only because of it's very locked down set of extensions. I'm currently a Firefox daily user, but Edge has been my main browser for several months at a time. Why try to capture users by locking out the competition when you can just keep making a better browser?

This is burning the goodwill they've built up for no apparent conceivable reason, and remains an excellent example of a company sabotaging itself repeatedly.

>Why try to capture users by locking out the competition when you can just keep making a better browser?

Cost of tricking people into using your browser: $

Cost of making a better browser: $$$$$$

Don't know what you are using but Edge sucks for me. It constantly freezes. It''ll freeze starting up or freeze shutting down. And once that happens the process stays stuck and you can't even kill it so you can't even try again. You just have to restart.

The mail app is so terrible, the few that put up with it likely won't mind this. It makes Outlook Express look good by comparison...

For the rest of us just stick to webmail or use Thunderbird/Outlook. Although in general my faith in email and desktop email clients diminishes with each passing year.

Apple and Google are doing this too: On my iPhone the Gmail app opens things in Chrome, the iOS promoted news stories are opened in Safari, yet I prefer Firefox.

Yep. Its not a bad idea at all, stuff like this is what made Chrome huge on Android. A lot of users will never change default settings.

I mean I would love to live in a world were people make informed decisions based on research but that's not happening. Meanwhile advanced users retain the freedom to use whatever browser they want so everyone wins.

Not to mention that every time the app updates, it will prompt you to use Chrome, even if you've already changed that setting.

It’s not even for every update, that setting seems to revert at least daily for me.

It’s very rare I see google going for a desperate and annoying UX, but this is infuriating - I’m glad I’m not the only one.

Sort of. Google apps give you the choice to open in Safari or Chrome. Not sure if they allow you to pick a different browser besides those two.

I've never been asked to open things in Safari or Chrome, but then again I am on Android.

For the majority of smartphone users, Gmail just one day started using Chromeframe to open all links without permission.

These behaviors are being used more and more as Google tries to tie your actions together into a single identity.

This may have been wry humor on your part, but of course there is no Safari on Android... I do see the behavior you describe in the News & Weather app, which likes to open links in embedded Chrome Web Views (unless I long-press and then they will offer to open in browser, which happens to be FF).

It doesn't allow choosing FF Focus, which I have installed.

Apple has never pretended you could set a default browser on iOS. Microsoft needs another 1.4 billion wake up call.

The fact that Apple hasn’t ever let you set a default browser on iOS isn’t a good thing.

I fault Apple way more for never even offering the option and not letting you replace apps that don’t give you that option. I don’t really care what Microsoft does with their mail app that I never use because I can replace it.

Apple does not even give you the option to replace the SMS app in iOS, which always opens links in safari.

Also, even if Microsoft were behaving as badly as Apple...if Apple can do it why can’t Microsoft? Are you saying that they should never be allowed to change anything?

My guess is Apple gets a pass because they are not a monopoly ... yet.

Apple doesn’t even have a majority market share in mobile phones. If you don’t like what they do you can just buy another phone. That’s not a monopoly.

Try building a successful mobile app without supporting iOS. That’s monopoly.

Furthermore, people are using mobile devices way more than computers now. So even if Microsoft was a monopoly in the past, they aren’t any longer.

That’s not monopoly. Monopoly means that effectively there is only one supplier and in the mobile phone market there are at least two, of which Apple is not even the largest.

Just because it is an important player it is hardly dominant.

Also, just because you don’t deem a market important anymore (and many people would beg to differ with your opinion) doesn’t change wether a party is a monopoly in that market or not.

It's not that simple. There is actually an anti-trust suit against them right now over this, so I guess we'll see...

> An appeals court has ruled that Apple must face antitrust charges in a lawsuit that alleges that the company monopolized the market for iPhone apps.

https://www.pcworld.com/article/3157551/mobile/apple-must-fa...

http://thehill.com/opinion/op-ed/272399-time-to-prosecute-ap...

http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-monopoly-ubs-steven-mil...

https://www.google.com/search?q=apple+is+a+monopoly

I hope they lose and are forced to change their store rules so we can sell apps outside their store because whatever label you apply to their behavior, it's despicable IMO.

This may be a very naive question, but why is Microsoft so invested in getting people to use Edge/IE? What's the big deal for Microsoft if people just prefer to use Safari/Firefox/Chrome/Opera/etc? Their browser share is already very low, what do they stand to lose?

The silliest thing about Edge is that you can't search through your bookmarks ("favorites") or history. That alone makes it an automatic no for me. There are no other features they could add to get me to switch, I can't believe they don't have it already.

Does anyone actually use "Mail"? I think most people either use the email webclient, e.g. GMail, or they are corporate users and use Outlook.

I tried it out on my laptop which I don't use much (mostly use my desktop dev rig) and was pleasantly surprised by it. It works pretty well with IMAP and the People app can sync directly with Google, something Outlook still can't do right. So, with a fresh install of Windows 10, you can get your Google-based email, calendar, and contacts into the lightweight built-in apps within about 5 minutes.

Yeah, I found with Mail for Windows 10 that the setup for gmail and my university's office365 account was fairly seamless. Likewise Outlook on Android (although I'm currently using K-9).

The only place I'm using webmail is on Linux but now Thunderbird is receiving new love it might be time...

> The only place I'm using webmail is on Linux

Oh but there are other great MTAs you can use too! Like (neo)mutt and alot!

I have a job at a large US company. Although I have admin rights and I can install basically anything I want, there is a script that sets the default browser at startup. Every time I encounter it, I get annoyed and I remember to not use the default browser (It is Edge).

Perhaps write your own script that sets it back?

Who inside Microsoft thinks this is a good idea?

Both Apple and Google do this on their platforms. Hell Apple won't even allow other browsers on IOS.

Isn't this what got it a court case with Netscape due to anticompetitive laws back in the day?

One more reason to use Outlook over Mail

One more reason to get off the Microsoft merry-go-round.

I prefer mailbird anyways

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