Comment by edw519 | Hacker News Reader

Comment by edw519 | Hacker News Reader

Hmmm...When it comes to simplicity in design, I may be an outlier, but just a few of my daily struggles...

- I have to subtract 23 minutes (or add 37 minutes depending on daylight savings time) from the clock in my car because I lost the manual. What ever happened to a dial with 2 hands?

- I have to stand beside the microwave and open the door when the popcorn stops popping because I have no idea how to get good popcorn any other way.

- I never put anything in the dishwasher because I have no idea whether it's clean or dirty. How hard would it be to put a large green/yellow/red light on the front panel? (I am not the main user.)

- Why does almost every web page or Windows screen have buttons that do totally different functions right next to each other in the same color? (Yesterday, I meant to click on my only unread email and accidently sorted by Subject Name instead. It took me 5 minutes to realize what I had done.

- I gave up on our 4 TV remotes (124 total buttons) long ago. If it's on Channel 6, I'll watch it without sound.

- What do those other 2 buttons on the garage door opener do? I hit them so often, some days I wonder if I'll hear dogs barking.

- Need ice or water from the refrigerator door? Make sure you're in the right "mode" first. Why not just have 2 openings?

- Cell phone is ringing. Where is it?!?!? Why can't I just answer the land line? It's always in the same place.

- Stereo in living room is unplugged until we need it. I don't know how to stop the constant light show on the front panel.

Just when was it that things got so complicated that they created more problems than they solved?

These are valid complaints, but they actually back up the author's point -

You still bought the complex-looking item. That it annoys you now is irrelevant (in the author's view). He posits that even though you know you only need 2 buttons for your garage door opener, you'd still buy one with 5 buttons before you bought one with 2.

No, I didn't buy any of these things because I wanted to. Consumers don't have much choice any more. I defy you to go out and find any of these things:

  - a microwave with a single dial
  - a cell phone that rings on your land line when you're home
  - a garage door opener with one button
  - a dishwasher with a status display
  - a car with an analog clock
  - a TV with an on/off switch and a channel dial

OP jumped to an unsubstantiated conclusion when we could have been writing about the elephant in the room: that functional design, like journalism and sensible politics, is a lost art.

Garage door opener with one button: http://amzn.to/bQBbFm The Infiniti FX35 has an analog clock. My dishwasher has a green light which indicates that the dishes are clean (though it turns off the first time you open the door, so you better be in the mood to put away dishes). Google voice rings all if your phones, landline or otherwise.

I've recently seen microwaves with a spring loaded timer dial, I'm sure you could still get one (if used).

Television setups on the other hand are needlessly complicated.

I used to love the "Clean" light until I realized what you pointed out: you'd better want to put away all the dishes right then, which is a problem when you just need a spoon to stir the soup, etc.

Maserati Gransport has an analog clock.

Microwave with just a dial: http://www.amazon.com/Dial-Microwave-1000W-15-0357-Category/... (there are many more). Although for what it's worth, my microwave has a "Popcorn" button that makes perfect popcorn every time.

I don't have a land line so I can't help you there. Although I always know where my cell phone is.

Every brand of garage door open seems to offer a single button remote (http://www.amazon.com/Genie-GIT-1BL-One-Button-Control-Intel...) and there are several aftermarket generic single button remotes as well.

Most modern dishwashers have a "clean" light that lets you know when the dishwasher is clean. My old Kenmore even does.

My wife's Audi A4 had an analog clock, although her new car has digital. I STRONGLY prefer digital. Setting the analog one was always a pain, and it didn't auto adjust for daylight savings time, like the new digital one does.

My Samsung TV has an on-off button and channel up and down buttons on the front. A dial doesn't make a lot of sense when you have 100s of channels.

My wife's Audi A4 had an analog clock, although her new car has digital. I STRONGLY prefer digital. Setting the analog one was always a pain, and it didn't auto adjust for daylight savings time, like the new digital one does.

I prefer digital clocks as well, but a car adjusting for DST? That seems like a recipe for more complexity, not less. What happens when the DST rules change? Then, instead of manually adjusting the clock twice a year, you have to adjust it four times - once each time the automatic DST change occurs on the wrong date, and again each time to adjust it on the correct date.

I'm sure this can be patched after manufacture--the logic is probably on a flash prom. I would hope the dealership takes care of this during a regular service.

> I would hope the dealership takes care of this during a regular service.

Except that I don't take my car to a dealer.... (I do all minor maintenance and used to do major as well.)

New Audis have a radio-driven clock, which means you never ever need to set the time.

  - a microwave with a single dial

Avanti MO7082MB http://www.google.com/search?q=Avanti+MO7082MB

  - a cell phone that rings on your land line when you're home

Google Voice https://www.google.com/accounts/ServiceLogin?service=grandce...

  - a garage door opener with one button

Liftmaster 371LM 315MHz Garage Door Remote Transmitter http://www.amazon.com/Liftmaster-315MHz-Garage-Remote-Transm...

  - a dishwasher with a status display

http://www.amazon.com/Cobble-Creek-Clean-Dishwasher-Magnet/d... (Granted, it is an add-on, but you didn't specify it had to be built in.)

  - a car with an analog clock

Chrysler Town and Country http://www.chrysler.com/shared/2010/town_country/gallery/ima... (Note that the clock not only is analog, it only has one button to set it. No manuals needed.)

  - a TV with an on/off switch and a channel dial

All the TVs I own have an on/off switch, albeit typically hidden where you cannot see it (behind or on the side of the screen bezel).

You got me on the dial, however. On the other hand, my TVs also have up/down channel switches which are a practical solution to having a dial than needs 200 detents.

P.S. I do agree with your summary, but I couldn't resist the challenge. :-)

I have a dishwasher magnet like that, the problem is people forget to change it often enough that you need to check anyway to be sure.

>a dishwasher with a status display

Just get a magnet and put it on the dishwasher when the contents are clean.

Pretty simple, but of course it would be simpler if you simply didn't wash the dishes before you put it in the _dish_washer.

OP jumped to an unsubstantiated conclusion

Unsubstantiated? The OP is Don Norman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Norman) and he's speaking from experience. The fact that he has more experience in this branch of design than pretty much anybody else should give his argument some weight.

we could have been writing about the elephant in the room: that functional design, like journalism and sensible politics, is a lost art.

I think he was addressing this point directly, but he happens to disagree with you. Take the following as an example:

Hurrah, I said, now the entire wash can be automatic, so there need be only two controls: one to chose between “hot and colored wash” and “easy-to-clean fabrics,” the other to start the machine. Nope, this washer had even more controls and buttons than the non-automatic one. “Why even more controls? I asked my contact at Siemens, “when you could make this machines with only one or two?”.

“Are you one of those people who wants to give up control, who thinks less is better?” asked this usability expert. “Don’t you want to be in control?”

Strange answer. Why the automation if it isn’t to be trusted? And, yes, actually I am one of those bizarre people who think that less is better.

It appears that marketing won the day. And I suspect marketing was right. Would you pay more money for a washing machine with less controls? In the abstract, maybe. At the store? Probably not.

Both Norman and his friend at Siemens understood that the interface to the washing machine could have been as simple as two switches. The problem is that they need to sell washing machines when they're sitting in a row of competitive products. In their experience, people in the market for a washer tend to buy on features. And Norman never claimed that everybody buys this way, just that most people do.

To blindly give your faith to someone because of who they are?

Which well known products is he credited with helping designing? There's none listed on his wiki page. Wiki does say 'The Norman Group's list of clients spans from Hertz all the way to Microsoft'.

Microsoft? Those well know UX masters? Oh dear. They are a damn sight better than some, but still way behind in true usability.

And of course there's the elephant in the room, the iPod. Which does exactly the opposite of what he claims.

And there are some howlers in the article. Like when he 'bets' the $250 toaster sells well.

Bets? Does he not know marketing 101? It's there to make the overpriced medium range toasters look cheap. It's not there to sell.

The sad fact is that UX design is still a new field and as such it's in its quackery stage. That means there's a lot of people saying things they think is true because of raindance/cargocult effects. And people will say they are amazing when they're not because they occasionally hit home runs.

Consider what the real reasons the expensive ones are more desirable than the cheap ones may be. Maybe it's because they look cheap and shit in the first place.

It's very easy to mix everything up. The iPod and iPhone have very few buttons but they look expensive. They exude status. And they sell well with simplicity. And unfortuantely for our stress levels the Apples and 37signals of this world are few and far between.

Now Don Norman, I don't know. He may be amazing, he may be not. But I can't agree with this article, but mainly because I'm now tired of badly designed tech gear. Perhaps when he was writing this in 2006 that overcomplication fatigue hadn't started sinking into society.

But note the legions of adoring fans the Apples and 37signals have created. That's worth its weight in gold.

To blindly give your faith to someone because of who they are?

Read my comment again. I never blindly gave him faith. I was pointing out that he's a well-known expert in this field, which is relevant when evaluating the substance of his argument.

At least some BMWs have, or had, analog clocks: http://rcaslis.xkill.net/vehicles/1998_BMW_M_Roadster/n02.jp...

Just twist the knob in the center to set the time.

(Can’t you just look at the stuff in the dishwasher and actually see whether it’s clean or dirty?)

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