Fountain pen inks: the good, the bad, and the ugly (2011) | Hacker News Reader

Fountain pen inks: the good, the bad, and the ugly (2011)

richardspens.com

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To all the people who keep asking why we would bother write with a fountain pen, a few reasons I do:

People are less likely to walk away or accidentally steal your fountain pen

I can write in the exact colour I want

I know scribbles or notes are mine without even looking at the writing

My colleagues know which pieces of notes are mine without asking My notebooks never wander far

I don't feel like I'm constantly killing the planet by binning my pen when it runs out of ink, I can just use the piston cartridge to constantly refill from a glass ink pot

It feels better in my hand than a biro

> It feels better in my hand than a biro

Ballpoints require one to constantly press down to keep the ink flowing. This makes writing tiring. (Fountain pens draw ink with capillary action.)

This is the main reason I use one, keeps my RSI from acting up when I have to write a lot.

Best $25 I've ever spent ($5 on a pen, jinhao x750, the rest on ink).

Put a JoWo #6 nib on it ($15) and it will write like a $150 pen.

I’m curious - what makes the nib “better”?

Ink flow. But that can be (and should be) fine tuned even for expensive pens.

It is subjective - they feel smoother, glass-like. One factor is most cheap Chinese nibs are not cut exactly at the middle. This can be seen with a 10x+ loupe. The metal is not as hard. Different metal types have different surface tension so it affects ink flow. It works without adjustment while most Chinese nibs need adjustment, alignment and polishing (which is fun in itself to do).

The original Jinhao pen nib is quite usable, but the other parts of e.g. a x750 pen are much better, so it is a popular mod to change the nib for a German one, or a Japanese Zebra G flexible nib.

I have recently bought a Lecai Chinese pen and the nib seemed to be flawless. These guys in the right track on making a 100% Chinese upper quality pen.

Both of the sibling comments, plus good nibs don't have any rough edges which touch the paper. They've been ground/sanded down so smooth that they effectively hydroplane on the ink they're depositing.

You can improve some inexpensive nibs by simply "writing" on a high grit sandpaper or sharpening stone, but if the metal is too soft you can quickly wear away the writing surface entirely. I'd do this with the pilot disposable fountain pens with good results.

Sometimes just flushing the chinese pens out with a little water and maybe a drop of detergent will do the trick.

Why can't Chinese marketers come up with Western-sounding brand names?

This is so annoying.

They may be a better value, but European brands give you peace of mind.

Like “Canadian Solar”?

I’d prefer my Chinese products to be honestly Chinese. Write clear marketing copy, give a specification written in decent English without random Chinese characters interspersed, and you’ll have some happy English-speaking customers.

I agree to an extent, but I think it's mostly an issue of branding. Consider that Japanese brands were once associated with poor quality, but as their quality improved their brands became better known.

Chinese pens have been greatly increasing in quality for a few years now. Today, I recommend the Wing Sung 698 and 608 for new fountain pen users.

For what it's worth, those Sharpie felt tip pens also draw ink with capillary action. This is what I use and it definitely reduces fatigue as compared with a ballpoint.

Sharpies have pretty powerful fumes...

Having used both: Sharpie felt tip pens drag on paper a lot more than fountain pens do. It makes controlling the pen easier, but overall there's more effort that goes into writing with them.

What ink did you choose?

I am having trouble with ink drying up in my pilot pen.

The pilot cartridges don’t dry up. Only the bottle ink.

Noodlers xfeather black, haven't had any issues, but I also haven't compared it to other inks. It's just been good enough and one bottle has lasted me years (since I first got a fountain pen).

Yes - this is one thing that I really didn't realise until much later in age - writing with a fountain pen is less fatiguing.

I used to press down hard with fountain pens, like I did with ballpoints, which used to cause blotting and damage my nibs. As soon as I started buying expensive fountain pens, I changed my style completely to use virtually no pressure on the page, and I am enjoying writing so much more.

Maybe a fountain pen would help me with my painful cracked fingers during the winter. My only fear is that my handwriting is so bad that my notebooks would look like something by Ralph Steadman.

It takes practice, and small adjustments to your writing style, but it is possible to get there. My handwriting went to heck after years of using keyboard only, but after a few months of practice, I got it to a stage where I could reasonably expect myself (and other people) to read them. https://twitter.com/dsabar/status/728060728930799616

I used to have bloody hands too but started using Lush's king of skin product about ten years ago. I buy one bar in the late fall and use it on my hands a few times a day. It's not lotion and will fix your hands.

https://www.lushusa.com/body/body-butters/king-of-skin/02176...

At least for that purpose (can't argue with the aesthetics of a fountain pen), there is a large selection of "post-ballpoint" pens that keeps the ink flowing with no effort. The Pilot V5 and Uni-Ball Eye are both ubiquitous classics in the space. Much cheaper and much easier to deal with than fountain pens.

Uni-Ball Signos live in my pencil case and my pockets, and a Pilot Metropolitan lives at my desk.

I agree 100% that the rollerball is cheaper and easier to use. There's much to be said for not having to clean the pen, being able to take it on an airplane without fear, etc. It's also much more pleasant to use than a ballpoint. For whatever reason, though, I find I can still write for longer without discomfort, and maintain a higher quality of penmanship, with the fountain pen.

(That, or I'm just a hopeless nostalgic. I also exclusively own wristwatches that contain no electronics.)

If I don't like how a FP feels, I can possibly change the nib or trade it/give it away. My first thought isn't like a ballpoint where I'd trash it.

I don't get as OCD but I know of some who match their FP to what they are wearing and/or the color of ink to the color of pen.

See, I have opposite problem, my Vanishing Point is fantastic pen and reliable, but I am worried that someone might swipe it, because it is so beautiful and it is not cheap.

I had my Vanishing Point Decimo stolen by a cleaner in my university.

I'm still upset about that.

Thank you for proving my point. And I am really sorry you lost your pen.

Thanks! I got a new one later, but it's the regular (non-Decimo) kind, and it's my favourite pen right now.

I had a nice fountain pen that I had turned myself stolen at university, but rather improbably ended up finding it on the ground a week later. I guess the thief was clumsy.

For me one of the nice things about a fancy fountain pen is that you generally remembering to keep it with you, heh

Just want to say I'm so happy to see other fountain-pen users here on HN.

There isn't a single other person in my life who uses them.

Every schoolkid in Germany seems to be using them. They even come in the cheap pen cases you can buy at the supermarket.

I don't know if this is still accurate, but during my time in school (finished in 2009) we had to use fountain pens from grade two and most teachers stopped caring what we were writing with in grade 7. From that point on most of use used ballpoint pens.

Huuuge communities online exist though. You might be surprised - check out fpgeeks forums or fountain pen network - both forums list local gatherings and pen shows.

Reddit's /r/fountainpens, too. There's an IRC channel that's fairly active, but I don't have the server address in front of me.

Depending on the pen, it is also smoother when writing, offering less resistance. Useful to sketch diagrams quickly with smooth lines or have a nice regular writing.

Con: I have been using Lamy fountain pens for a while, and Lamy owners can recognise each other's in the firm to the traces of black ink on their fingers.

As a regular Lamy user, none of my Lamys tried to mark my hand to claim me as its servant. Why your pen does it? Burping? Leak?

Across multiple models but with broad nibs. Usually it leaks into the cap when closed and then the part of the pen the closest to the nib is covered with ink.

I need to take a look at this. Are you sure that you're not gripping from the lip which locks and creates an air-tight seal? The grip would make it very uncomfortable though.

I have a medium Lamy which writes broad-ish (because of production tolerance + well smoothed nib due to long writing sessions) and wets its sealing lip, but even that one never stained my hand.

Which ink are you using? Is it extremely wet and eager to flow? Do you fly with the pen? Temperature around the pen?

I've been using only Lamy pens for the last couple of years, my kids too. We have about 10 of them, and we usually use the cheapest ones. The ink is also made by Lamy. And we have no such problems.

Obviously, the plural of anecdote is not data, but I've been using a Lamy (Logo; fine nib) for years now, and I've yet to have more than the (very occasional) weak smudge of ink on the part of my pinky and ring fingers resting against the paper.

I'm a leftie, even. (Mostly using Parker Quink, which dries very fast - occasionally using Diamine inks, too.)

I'm using broad nib, maybe that's why. But it's been consistent across all models and I have tried pretty much the full range.

For me the only important point is that you do not need to apply pressure in order to write. The ink just flows.

I like all of them, but I always had problems with fountain pens:

-Ink not coming out for the few centimetres of writing.

-Ink not coming out if I leave the pen for a few days without using.

-Having to refill if left unused for even longer.

-Leaky tips, dirtying the hand.

-Tips easily broken in a drop.

Somehow I always don't get the instant ink, no matter what pen or ink I use. This is the number one reason I kept giving up.

If you're leaving the tip open, i.e. the cap is not on for more than some seconds while you aren't writing, then the ink in the feed may dry. Another possible reason of these problems is low quality ink, nib and/or pen, and yet another is fibres of paper sticking into the cut in the middle of the nib.

edit: and dirtying your hands might be because you're a messy pen user. I definitely am, no matter if I use a ballpoint, a rollerball, a fountain pen, a marker, &c, I get my hands dirty. Personally I'm fine with that.

Pilot makes the Pilot Petit 1 which is a fountain pen that is tiny, although posted it actually has a nice size.

I have had a set of three for about 2 months and they never seem to be dry, unlike some other fountain pens I have used.

The only caution I can give is that their blue-black ink seems to flow very poorly.

They can be gotten on ebay with refills for a reasonable price.

Agree with all, but I would add a really important one that in itself could already justify using a FP.

- because (good) fountain pens are like good watches. You love your FP, you take care of it and you enjoy every moment you see it and use it.

Mechanical watches also have downsides, but a mechanical watch owner just loves the watch for a lot of other reasons that compensate by far the downsides.

I happen to think my fountain pens are quite a bit more work than a ballpoint and at times downright annoying to use, but you're right I just love using them.

You forgot the main reason for which most of us use fountain pens: they are cool.

> People are less likely to walk away or accidentally steal your fountain pen

Especially if you keep hold of the cap, just pass them the pen ready to write.

One of the rules is to never offer your gold nib fountain pen to anyone. Gold nibs are soft and adapts to your writing style over the time that people who are not familiar with fountain pens but biros usually press too hard to the paper that alters the soft nib.

True, I use my nice pens in the office or at home. I've a Baoer 388 I carry around, apart from the lacquer that seems almost indestructible and writes very well.

I think I read a while ago that fountain pens don't wear to your writing style, that's an old tale. Pressing too hard will usually damage one though.

Depends on the nib. A 18K nib is soft enough to develop flatter surfaces over the time, based on the owner's writing style. It is also mentioned on one of the premier fountain maker's (and OEM nib maker) page: https://www.pelikan.com/pulse/Pulsar/en_US.CMS.displayCMS.25...

I can't see where on that link it talks about the nib developing flatter surfaces. The nib is flexible and with long term use and excessive pressure can alter the angle of the tines. That can affect the ink flow through the slit affecting how the ink is laid.

The tip, the only part which touches the paper, is made of iridium[1], or similar, which is very hard. As far as I can tell that doesn't wear. Some very old or specialise/custom nibs may use softer metals and perhaps wear would be a possibility on those but in any instance I can't see you wanting a flat spot to develop.

[1] It turns out that modern iridium nibs probably aren't made of iridium. I was looking into wear on them and found, amongst others, this https://www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/wheres-iridium which does into detail analysing the composition of a fair number of nibs. Down the rabbit hole!

“As the material is soft enough to adapt to your handwriting with time.”

Not every nib is flexible. My Duofold and Meisterstück certainly aren't, my cheap Noodler's Ahab just to a limited extent (but it is a special steel flex nib).

I went through a fountain pen phase for about a year and finally gave up on it after a few notable incidents.

- going through the airport was hit or miss. Bristol? Stuttgart? things are perfect. interstate travel in the US? id lost two pens to the TSA. My flight to calgary started perfectly, and ended after a half full fountain pen quietly burst in my jacket pocket. not fun.

- No one seems to know what these things are anymore? signing formal documents was met with additional scrutiny from realtors and attorneys. Id had an attorney once insist I use his pen as he was convinced the liquid in the pen was not real ink.

> an attorney once insist I use his pen as he was convinced the liquid in the pen was not real ink.

That's really funny! In Germany the opposite is true: certain transactions, like marriage licenses, are only legal if signed with a DIN standard ink guaranteed to last a century. There appears to be an ISO standard for Kugelschreiber (ball point, Byro) ink but in practice this has always seemed to be fountain pen ink (admittedly I got married over 25 years ago; perhaps things have...relaxed... a little. Kids still have to use fountain pens in school.

As an exchange student in Bayern, I've seen other students use fountain pens, though more often Kugelschreiber (ballpoint) or Filzstifte (felt tip). I'm not aware of any such requirement for fountain pens.

Are you in High School or Uni? Grundschulekinder use fountain pens (specific Pelikan or Lamy models with stiff nibs for kids) from Klasse 1. My son's homework was rejected unless he used one. By high school things had become more relaxed...and the handwriting less legible.

I almost exclusively sign documents with a fountain pen - because I enjoy the process, and I usually get just the precise sort of ink flow to accentuate the flourishes in my sig. I've never had anyone question it to date, in my experience, and it would be sad if it was not accepted on formal documents any more.

Actually, I have had a lot of e-signatures rejected recently, and ended up signing them with my fountain pen, re-scanning the pages and emailing them on!

Similarly, I took a photo of a particularly well written signature, and paste that into PDFs as my signature. It's worked quite well for any "Sign Me" PDFs I've been sent.

And the signature just looks... nice.

I was told that when witnessing documents having all parties use the same pen is actually better as it gives a higher standard of evidence that all parties were all in proximity.

Having different writing with different pens can suggest they were done at different times.

The person that told you this is full of hogwash. Being signed with the same ink provides no evidence that two people were together at the same time (unless the ink is extremely rare and hard to procure), and you cannot tell if two signatures were done with the exact same pen. Two people can sign with the same model of pen within days of each other and you can't tell the difference after a few days- and most legal disputes are going to occur more than a few days after signing. Being signed with two different pens also doesn't suggest anything other than the two signatories used different pens.

If you want legally admissible proof that two people signed a document together then you need a notary. Of course a notary could be corrupted, but the courts are much less concerned about that than they are about the chance that two people both own a Pilot G2 in black.

In the US most notaries will not allow you to sign official documents with a fountain pen- it seems to be part of the training, and many realtors and attorneys are notaries for convenience. As great as they are to write with, many FP inks cannot withstand tampering, so they don't allow any FP inks because it's hard to track which of the thousands of brand/color combos are safe. A cheapo ballpoint is better for official documents- although in this era I'd trust a cryptographic signature more than a handwritten one.

I have a bottle of cellulose reactive fountain pen ink for such purposes. Also, there are mass produced tamper-proof inks. So, in fact it's possible to sign documents with an FP.

On the other side of the spectrum is "washable" blues which are waiting to disappear in a small drop of water.

I think the problem is that a notary might have trouble being convinced that your fountain pen ink is what you say it is.

Probably yes. For these stuff I always carry a Uniball elite with blue-black ink (I'm a blue-black guy), and for other documents -like office and other stuff- I use the reactive ink.

Uniball's super ink is ridiculously tamper-proof, contrary to its cheesy name.

Most? That’s a new one to me, and I regularly use notaries, though not in the context of real estate.

I suppose in real estate transactions, your bank might insist on you using their pen, as it doesn’t want you to sign a note in disappearing ink. But the “notary” shouldn’t care how you sign most documents, once you prove you are the person signing.

They won't force you to use a particular pen, but they must take reasonable precautions that you are using permanent ink. Notaries must protect their seal, and don't want you to sign as Joe Blow, get the seal, then wash the signature off at home and re-sign as Donald Trump. Washing a signature is trivial with many FP inks, so most notaries don't want you to use them- it's too much trouble to verify which inks are safe, and much easier to ask you to use a ballpoint. Those that do allow it are risking losing their license (admittedly a small risk) if they get caught up in fraudulent signatures.

Notaries that allow FP inks are either just accepting the risk because they don't want to be a dick or they are not aware that by using FP ink you might as well be signing in pencil.

The fact that fountain pen inks are usually (always?) water-soluble does make them a poor choice for permanent documents which risk being altered.

I like my fountain pen, but use a more robust ink for many standard tasks.

There are a wide variety of permanent fountain pen inks available: http://noodlersink.com/noodlers-durable-ink-classification/

Thanks. I saw a few others mentioned elsewhere in this thread. TIL!

> My flight to calgary started perfectly, and ended after a half full fountain pen quietly burst in my jacket pocket. not fun.

This isn‘t too uncommon, I have been told.

Years ago, when I worked in aerospace, I had a colleague who always carried his precious fountain pen in a small black box.

When I asked him about it, he told me that the box was only partially to protect his pen but also to protect his bag and the things in it from leaked ink. He said that pressure surges during flights used to cause him a lot of trouble and he looked long and hard until he found a case that was airtight and sturdy enough to prevent leakage. I looked up the case and it was some military grade box.

I have a simple zippered pouch that I carry my pens in. It's been on at least 2 dozen individual flights including some to/from Europe. I've never had a problem with TSA in the US. And some times I've traveled with 5-6 inked up pens before.

The most important thing is to travel with them nib up because the change in pressure can force air out if they aren't full. I used to bag them in mini-sandwich bags too to be safe but found that to not be necessary.

I always take my fountain pens out of my travel bag before leaving if flying is involved. The pressure changes I have always assumed do not do good things to the pens. As an unpressurized plane owner I don’t often interact with the TSA, though.

OTOH after an extended absence from my office, my desk TWSBI 580 EF worked perfectly the first stroke after six weeks, filled with a Noodler’s plum ink (the name escapes me right now).

Vacuum fill fountain pens can be safely carried in airplanes, like the Pilot Custom 823 (which is good but somewhat expensive for a travel pen) or the TWISBI Vac700R and Vac Mini.

My favourite ink is the Pilot Iroshizuku take-sumi, but it's not tamper proof if it matters.

Fountain pens are one of those things that probably would have died out if not for the internet, especially on the cheaper end of the market. There are today more pens and inks to choose from than at any time in history, even times when fountain pens were widely used.

Most niche hobbies had no problem existing before the internet. There were magazines and conventions and local clubs and specialty shops devoted to them, just like there still are. And cheap fountain pens have been easy to find in office supply stores for as long as I can remember.

I am a fountain pen enthusiast, or I should rather say "used to be". If any effect Internet has had on my fountain-penmanship or any penmanship it has resulted in drastically decreased usage. Isn't it a general phenomenon? (I've no data on it, just what I have observed around me)

So if you meant just buying, selling, collecting, swapping pens, and talking about fountain pens then it makes sense (which is what it seems you have focussed on in your comment), but if that also involved actually using them then, I would say, overall the Internet has instead done great harm to it.

I'm the same. I used to almost exclusively write with a fountain pen. Now I write everything with a keyboard. Primarily, because I realised that notebooks full of words are hard to search and fragile in a archival preservation sense. Far better to type everything, and print it all on archival paper with pigment inks (no laser printers!).

Sort of a bit sad though, to not play with pens and bottles and syringes etc. any more.

I don't know if they'd gone away. However, in school and college I used to write with one and I only every used the standard, blue Pelikan ink we were told to use in elementary school in Germany. I now have to write a lot more by hand at work and got a new fountain pen. That was the months ago or so. Thanks to the Internet I now have 4 pens three ink bottles and about 15 samples from Gulet pens...

In many european countries all schoolkids use fountain pens at school, and then keep using them later in life. So it is very unlikely that they will die out any soon.

Actually I've heard that's being phased out in some countries in favor of... typing classes!

What do you mean? It is not like the kids have "fountain pen classes". They use fountain pens in all their classes. Yet, having typing classes is a great idea! Learning to touch-type is a very important ability in the modern world.

This articles says that inkjet ink "frequently uses pigment, not dye," but my understanding is that most inkjet inks are actually dye-based, and that you have to somewhat go out of your way to find pigment-based ones (and they cost more).

The latter are usually recommended for archival printing purposes (e.g. Epson's "Dura Brite" inks), because they are less likely to fade over time and are better bonded with the paper (and actually have particles that can bond with the paper).

Which one is it that won't run when I put a coffee mug down on my notebook? Because that's the one I want.

Impact paper. It's the future.

What's that?

I thought it was "carbonless copy paper", an old tech to replace carbon paper.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbonless_copy_paper

The future.

Seriously though, I can't find any information for that online. The first Google result is Impact Wholesale, which redirects to some very invasive ads. Impact printers on the other hand are printers that mark dots on the paper using a needle, so no ink is applied.

So, dot matrix printers?

;)

I've had good luck with De Atramentis Document Ink. Dries very quickly, won't smear when I set my beer can^W^W coffee cup down on it. I have been using it for years, and it hasn't screwed up my pen.

I don't know if it is as safe on fine pens as the article would want, but since I use it in a $30 Lamy, I'm not too concerned.

Diamine Registrar Ink is another option. It writes blue then it fades to gray. Some Noodler's (US) inks are resistant to a wide range of solvents as well.

Rohrer und Klingner Dokumentus ink works great too, it's certified to withstand water, organic solvents, bleach, acids and the lot. It bonds with cellulose, but it won't stick to your fingers!

I've found it depends on how soon you want it to be waterproof: I've had ink run when it's got wet within a few weeks of being written, but the exact same ink on the exact same paper (Watermans in a Moleskine) has not smudged a bit when getting damp two years after being written.

Not that there aren't inks that are liable to be much better than that, sooner. But really, if an ink is to flow through the pen, and not have it clog things, I reckon it's unlikely to ever be able to be completely waterproof right after being put on the paper. Unlike a 10¢ ballpoint pen with oil-based ink! :(

For HP, the separation is made at product level. Both consumer and office ink jets have pigmented blacks, but consumer color cartridges are generally dye-based while officejet inkjets and professional printing machines use pigment based color inks.

Specification page for cartridges generally gives pigment/dye information.

There's a fair number of inkjets that use a 5-cartridge system. There's the usual cymk, but then there's an additional pigment black cartridge. Cheap ink to print photos, more expensive ink to print text. Works great in my experience.

Richard Binder is a legend in the fountain pen community, both for his skill and helpfulness in repairing and restoring pens, but also as one of the community's best curmudgeons. (Nathan, of Noodler's ink fame is another.)

I've been a big fan of Richard for years, while using exclusively Noodler's ink for its permanence. I've had no ill effects. (Twitch, twitch.)

When I first got into fountain pens, Noodlers was a pretty heavily recommended ink. I wish I had seen this article ten years ago.

Richard Binder specializes in repair and maintenance of old and valuable pens. Recommendations for those pens don't necessarily apply to cheaper modern fountain pens. I've been using Noodler's inks for about 8 years in a Lamy Safari, and I've never had any trouble. The only Noodler's ink I've heard of causing problems with these pens is Bay State Blue, which is unlike any other Noodler's ink.

I personally recommend Noodler's Bulletproof Black. It writes consistently and reliably on any paper I've tried, it's waterproof, and it's reasonably priced. If you're interested in fountain pens as a hobby rather than as practical writing implements you might have different recommendations.

I hear Noodler's House Divided also causes trouble. To be fair they make so many inks, there gotta be some turds.

Same here, been using it for years in Lamy Safari, Shaeffer 100, and Noodler's own pens, as well as Preppy Platinums. Would I put it in a vintage pen? Absolutely not. Modern <$100 pen? Most definitely.

I'll go a little further. I've been using Noodler's inks, mostly Heart of Darkness (which is bulletproof), for several years. I started with a TWSBI but when I upgraded to a Pilot Vanishing Point I continued to use Noodler's without any hesitation. It's continued to serve me well, and it remains my favorite and most dependable brand of ink.

I did have one mold issue with Private Reserve in my TWSBI, and to be safe I have avoided using it in my Vanishing Point. I may be being overcautious though; I'm not sure how much to extrapolate from that one incident. My mother is an artist and has used several dozen Private Reserve inks spanning over a decade, all without any issues.

Same here, I haven't had a problem with any modern pens. I have Jinhaos, WingSungs, and a few Pilot Kakünos and Metropolitans.

I'm 2 years in and I think I'd just designate a pen to be dedicated to the known Noodler's "problematic" colors(BSB and Mass 54th). I just cleaned out 4 pens, some of which had dried ink in them, all of them were fine.

I'm partial to Noodler's Heart of Darkness and X-Feather.

I've also used Noodler's Bulletproof Black for the past 8 years, in a Lamy Safari and a variety of other pens. Never had any problems with it.

Ditto on Bay State Blue though. Beautiful ink, but notorious for ruining pens in various ways.

The good thing about noodlers is that they carry a waterproof range. I think they are called "bulletproof".

A good resource for fountain pen lovers is https://www.nibs.com/

They do repair and custom work too.

...what is a reasonable price for a decent fountain pen?

As low as $3. Sometimes a touch cheaper if you order an erm "inspired" copy from abroad.

https://www.jetpens.com/blog/great-beginner-fountain-pens-th...

The entry level Pilot, Parker and Lamy pens are pretty reliable, for between $20-50. I started with a Parker Jotter medium nib years ago, and it remains one of my favorite writers.

(ed: I’ve had magnificent $3 chinese pens, awful $3 chinese pens, and some that can be improved with fiddling. Most Americans prefer broader, more “buttery” writing, which can be hard to get from the average Chinese nib. For most beginners, then, I’d say get a basic medium nib pen from an American/European/Japanese brand.)

If you're just looking to dip a toe in the water, Pilot Varsity is a disposable fountain pen that can be had for $2-3 in the US, though it's usually sold in multi packs. IMO, it's a decent writer for the price (and the only disposable I've tried and would recommend), and lasts long enough to see whether you'll get comfortable with the way a fountain pen behaves.

Refillable pens can be had for not a whole lot more, but the ink reservoir will be smaller, so, even though they usually come with a free cartridge or two, you may end up wanting to buy a few extra cartridges or a bottle of ink in order to get enough writing time to really get a feel for the pen.

Baoer makes some decent models (mostly ripoffs of Montblanc). They go for around $3, and are pretty durable as long as you don't drop them.

Lamy Safari and TWSBI Eco are two popular starter pens, both around $25-30. The Lamy takes cartridges and the TWSBI is a "piston filler" with a reservoir filled directly from a bottle of ink.

On the slightly cheaper side, the Pilot MR is usually a bit under $20. It's more of a traditional fountain pen look. Pilot Metropolitan is a common name for it (or more specifically a type or MR, just different color/pattern options IIRC).

Then there's all the Chinese pens, some of these are fine but it's hit or miss. I'd suggest sticking with a known manufacturer for a first pen since they have better quality control (especially on the nibs).

Be wary of buying pens on Amazon, their counterfeiting problem extends to fountain pens. Pen retailers like JetPens or Goulet Pen Company are safer since you know they're coming through the real distribution channel.

http://www.deskoflori.com/blog/2015/4/16/my-experience-with-...

If you like pigmented pens but don't want to use them in a fountain pen, for the reasons the author lists, consider a Pigma Micron pen: http://kk.org/cooltools/pigma-micron-pn-pen. They're available from Jetpens and are expensive enough to be good but not so expensive as to be terrible when lost.

I’ve actually got a set of these and I have to agree that they are fantastic to write with. The plastic tips have such a nice friction, well, at least to my personal taste.

I use fountain pens and glass pens all the time, and have tried inks from all over the world. My favorite ink is Take-Sumi, by Pilot, from Japan.

If you’re interested in fountain pens and ink, Massdrop is a good place to sample a variety of options.

Assuming you're in the US, you'll be able to find a lot of pens and ink on Amazon. If you're looking to support American retailers, try Vanness Pens, Anderson Pens, Goulet Pens.

Dude hates Noodler's ink, but Noodler's brought back fountain pen interest. I still only use Noodler's inks, including Baystate but not the weird ones.

I have a big bottle of Heart of Darkness that I'm working through (the 4.5oz one) and an X-Feather sample that I think is done.

The only gripes I have about Noodler's is that it isn't as vivid in EF or F, they beg to be in M nibs. Also the Charlie eyedropper pen burped A LOT.

Isn't Baystate the weird one?

It is the most ill-behaved fountain pen ink there is but it's also the most permanent (which is why Noodler's still makes it and people still buy it). You need a pretty strong bleach solution to get the staining out of anything. Water, ammonia, and other standard ink cleaners won't touch it.

Yes, he absolutely does hate Noodler’s. I have a friend that has been into fountain pens for a long time. He recommended to go with Noodler’s since so many have archival and waterproof properties. Other inks were referred to as expensive food coloring.

If you are writing notes that won’t matter in a few months then a dye based ink is just fine. If you’re writing something that you still want read in 50 years then you want something more permanent than a dye based ink. Each case is fine, but the author is definitely pushing an agenda rather than providing a holistic view.

THERE ARE DOZENS OF US ... DOZENS!!!

And there are pen shows around the world where collectors and enthusiasts come together. e.g. sf pen show in the bay area (sfpenshow.com), LA Pen show (http://www.lainternationalpenshow.com/) which as been going for like 30 years, and more - many more.

I think I'll stick with my beloved Bic Cristals, this looks like an incredible amount of trouble.

Fountain pens are unnecessary but you at least owe yourself a uni-ball micro or similar.

jetpens.com - hook up some Pilot Hi-Tec Cs. Cheap as anything but I guarantee you’ll never look back.

I'm not sure how anyone can stand these pens. :) There are just so many better ones without having to go all the way down to the fountain pen route. Microns, for example, or decent jet pens, or...

Light. Robust. Cheap. Perfect form factor. Always works. Doesn't drip. Replacements can be bought about everywhere. I have at least a dozen of these lying around and I pick the one whichever is closest.

The guy uses a lot of vintage pens. Most modern pens are very low maintenance.

I can refill a pen in less than 30 secs if using a converter, 5 secs if I'm popping in a new cartridge. For those that want to go the disposable route, there are several options.

The guy is making it sound more involved than it is for 99% of the FP using community.

> Most modern pens are very low maintenance.

And very forgiving. I dragged out a Pelikan I hadn't used in a couple years and found it was half-full of ink, dried ink all over the nib.

Gave it a quick wipe, worked perfectly.

Amazing. I'd expect it to be clogged. Nothing a thorough rinse cannot fix, but just a quick wipe? What ink was in it?

Yeah, I couldn't believe it :) The ink's Waterman South Sea Blue.

I've been using a fountain pen since when I started uni (nearly 4 years ago), first used a local brand for some months, then found the Pelikan I bought second hand from a pens repairsman, which I still use. I write quite a bit on paper and almost exclusively with my fountain pen, and to this day, I've only been through one bottle of ink, a Lamy Black I bought for TRY15 back in the day (~$3,5 currently). All I ever do to that pen is fill it up when it needs a filling up. And very infrequently I switch from black ink to blue or viceversa.

A usable ballpoint or rollerball pen costs at least ~TRY5-10, and it does not last me more than a couple months. Cheaper stuff tends to not be reliable. And it may be hard to find that particular pen again, with the same tip and same feel, whereas with my fountain pen I always know what will happen when I put the thing on some paper.

I love my Parker Sonnet and Watermans. But I love my rollerball - I see no reason to deal with the mess of a fountain pen, when I get the same ink-like quality with a rollerball.

The best part is that I can replace my Waterman rollerball refills with a significantly cheaper Signo (which gives me indelible, waterproof writing) or the Pentel Energel refills (which is as close to ink as you can possibly get).

http://www.lambdacurry.com/2017/05/cheaper-better-waterman-r...

J. herbin makes a rollerball that you can use with FP cartridges. Standard international cartridges/converters.

I use fountain pens when I can because I like the feel of writing with them and, to a limited extent the, I enjoy the ritual of caring for the instruments.

It has long bothered me that I cannot simply buy pen ink without the background information presented in this article. Because of the issue of inks damaging my pens, I've become increasingly unwilling to experiment with new brands of ink or trying sensational colors. I now limit myself strictly to inks sold by pen manufacturers (specifically, Pelikan, Waterman, and Parker), which don't pose the problems discussed in this article.

> I now limit myself strictly to inks sold by pen manufacturers (specifically, Pelikan, Waterman, and Parker), which don't pose the problems discussed in this article.

On the plus side, there are enough nice inks sold by the pen manufacturers themselves that this isn't particularly restrictive.

Do you get "Quink" in the US? Always the standard in the UK.

We do indeed. I use it regularly.

In India kids use pencil up to 4th standard. From 5th standard onward they start using pens. Buying a fountain pen and inkpot used to be a big thing back in the day. I still remember my first fountain pen. My mother purchased it for me in 1987. It used to be sort of rite of passage. We did not have gel pens in India back the. Using ball pen was strictly forbidden. The reason given was that writing with fountain pen improves handwriting. These days kids use gel pen as their first pen. Usage of fountain pens in India is dying at least in bigger cities.

My wife and I both draw with Namiki Falcon fountain pens, which are fantastic, and use Platinum Carbon Black ink, which is a pigmented ink. I don't know if it's nano-particles (i.e., the pigment is ground extremely fine so brownian motion alone is sufficient to maintain dispersion), but we've never experienced clogging, and it has a permanence (and blackness) on par with Noodler's Bulletproof Black. She uses her pen almost every day; mine can go a week or more without being used. Still works perfectly every time I pick it up.

Which weight? I had a fine for a while and it was the worst thing to use, it scratched worse than a 4H pencil... (currently using a Bock #6 titanium nib in a $20 Noodler's Konrad and the amount of flex and control is second only to a vintage gold nib).

We both have extra fine nibs, and haven't found them to be scratchy at all. I do recall a bit of a break-in period with hers, making circles on a sheet of paper for a while, to smooth it out.

I use a cheapo chinese brass fountain pen with an extra fine nib for scribbling in my notebooks, and I use a fancy Mont Blanc 146 with a medium-fat nib for writing cards, signing and others...

People always mention how they loved my cards/notes, just because of the handwriting. I had stopped writing for about 20 years (at the time I could barely write checks due to the lack of training!) until a friend who's also a graphic designer send me a xmas card a few years back with some fantastic calligraphy, and I was instantly hooked.

Edit: Fixed autocorrect 'fixes'

I love fountain pens! I've been using them all my life and try to have my kids use them too (with some success so far).

But, so called "rocking" (or rocker) blotters are increasingly hard to find, so much so that I decided to design and produce my own. (It's a beautiful sheet of metal with a bent plastic part to hold the blotting paper).

But I wonder if there really is a market for it? Do people still use fountain pens, and of those who do, how many would buy a blotter? Anyone knows where to find that kind of information?

Fountain pen-related stuff seems to do pretty well on Massdrop.

Agreed. Massdrop actually re-ignited my fountain pen obsession after years of me trying to pretend I wasn't obsessed about them...

Massdrop does pretty well in the "stuff I only needed one of but ended up chasing a dragon" categories:

- Everyday carry tools/pocket knives - Mechanical keyboards - Headphones - Pens/pencils

There seems to be a common type of person that wants to have different stuff than the mainstream, and they all start by buying Benchmade knives, Ducky keyboards, Grado headphones, and a Lamy Safari.

This isn't true for all fountain inks, but the ones that I use dry quickly enough that blotting just isn't necessary.

It not only depends on the ink but on the paper, and the usage. When writing long documents there's no problem, but when signing contracts (or initialing them) a blotter is very necessary because there's no time for the ink to dry before another paper comes on top of it.

Also, it's a cool object ;-)

There's a HUGE market. In fact the Japanese market alone is large enough that Pilot/Sailor/Platinum don't even release all their new pens to the US market.

Try going to the forums - fountainpennetwork.com or fpgeeks.com to get interest in your blotters. I've seen rocking blotters sold by J. Herbin, so they still exist.

Thanks!

I love fountain pens. My handwriting is way better with FP than using ball point pen. I started with camel, then pilot and then switched to Parker in my school days. After almost 8 year break I decided to get back to FP last year and bought Lamy fine charcoal pen after reading some recommendations. I didn't like it and after writing 4 pages my fingers started hurting. Is there a decent FP that anyone here can recommend ?

I like fountain pens a lot, but most of the times I actually need to write, I need to do so away from a desktop and fountain pens aren't ideal for these conditions (for those occasions I have the zebra 701+space pen hacked pen [e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7S4bjPG5Lr4]).

I don't quite follow?

Fountain pens work well when you've a flat surface that you're sitting above. They work much less well when, say, you're standing and trying to write on a notepad you're holding in your other hand.

While fountain pens are nicer to write with, they are also more demanding than ballpoints (humidity, temperature, paper quality, writing surface, blotting etc.). Hence, for reliably being able to take notes it might be a better idea to carry a space pen (pressurized ball point) instead of a fountain pen.

However, if you can control conditions and for example write comfortably at your desk, a nice fountain pen is preferable.

Because they work by capillary action, if you have the pen uncapped for too long, the trail of ink on the nib can dry enough that it gives you a hard start.

Recapping and uncapping can be distracting to others. There are some pens that have a click action like a regular pen but they are SPENDY.

Some of the paper quality issues can be mitigated by the ink choice and/or nib size.

I use the Zebra SL-F1, also with the Fisher refill. I did not know that changing the refill of a pen was considered a hack now.

Unrelated to the subject matter, but I really miss websites like this.

Indeed... except, my eyes!!! The combo of font / size / spacing / coloring makes reading this site quite difficult.

Hmm, I love using fountain pens, and have been using Iroshizuku inks for years. However, none of my pens have a bladder well (mostly screw plungers) so I think I am safe ?!?

Most Iroshizukus tend to have high pH [1]. It might be problematic on e.g. celluloid pens depending on the particular ink color you use. It's a shame as they are superb inks.

I tend to use J Herbin Lie de Thé which is close to neutral and its formula is very safe (basically water plus food-grade colorants).

[1] http://www.richardspens.com/?page=ref/care/ink_ph.htm

Thanks for the heads up on J Herbin Lie de Thé - They seem around the same price point as the Iroshizukus, so I will see if the place I usually order from stock these and try them out.

It's been years since I wrote something on a paper using rudimentary hardware, but my wife is a great fan of fountain pens and spend a great deal of time taking care of them. She writes into her notebook and calendar with series of vivid colors, it is really a joy to the eyes. She explained me in great details how the ink for the pen to write japanese was flowing differently than the ink to write roman characters. It's geeky in its own way :)

I haven’t written anything substantial by hand in years for one simple reason: even if I scan it, it’s not searchable. Has there been any progress on handwriting recognition from images (rather than strokes)? I’d love to be able to write again like I used to 15 years ago, but I’m not prepared to give up the searchability of my notes.

There's a really fantastic review of fountain pen culture within Something Awful at https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=37... that makes me laugh every time. Seems appropriate here.

That page is completely unreadable to me.

I had similar experiences with my Noodler ink. They have a blue that is imo the nicest dark Prussian blue on the market. Unfortunately, it gave my Water Kultur, then Lamy 2000 endless clogging problems. The Pilot Ishigaki line of inks is probably the best compromise between color and reliability.

I stopped using my fountain pens years ago, but my kids have picked them right back up, and thats about the best good use of them that I can imagine. Nothing like seeing a young 'un, carefully spelling out the letters in their words, oblivious to the splats and puddles on their periphery ..

I use Rohrer & Klingner Verdigris Ink and am quite happy with it.

Prompted by this article I looked up its pH value, which is close to neutral with 7.98, while many other colors are more off-center.

Love writing with cheap bic disposable fountain pens... any suggestions for a low-maintenance first ballpoint? Preferably relatively inexpensive

Parker (EDIT: Pilot) Metropolitan.

Pilot* Metropolitan

A $20 Retro 51 rollerball is a fantastic "It Just Works" pen that's a step up from Bic disposables -- Looks great, feels great -- I've gotten a ton of compliments on mine, but it's not expensive to the point where you worry too much about it, and fountain pens, while fun, are a bit moody.

I’m pretty particular but the main ones I like are the Uniball Signo 207, either the .5 or .7 tip but now I’ve moved to the Uniball Jetstream, just feels smoother. Then I just buy the refills which are pretty cheap and less wasteful.

I recommend trying out gas-pressure ballpoints. Some may know them as "space pen" but if you look for something with that name, you overpay most of the time. I got mine for about 5€ including cartridge.

The advantages, IMO, is that they require much less friction and pressure to write and last much longer: I've been using the same cartridge for about 5 years now, two of which I spent with writing a lot (higher school; FOS, german school type) and the rest with infrequent usage (sometimes dry ink collects at the tip but it'll break off once you start writing.

The only downside is that some models tend to leak more ink than necessary, I've observed this in two cheaper cartridges that I only used briefly. It leads to some smudging if you're lefthanded.

"any suggestions for a low-maintenance first ballpoint"?

A bic crystal? Or did you mean first fountain pen?

If you're not a caligrapher, why bother? Just buy gel pens and get the comfort with way less maintenance.

There is something timeless about writing with a fountain pen that a crappy gel pen can never capture. I rarely have to write by hand these days, but when I must write something beyond a few scribbled notes, I find the fountain pen encourages me to write with intent, and to savor every stroke.

Savor every stroke? Timeless? See that's what I'm talking about. Fountain pens and gel pens are both tools but somehow people associate fountain pens with class. It's great that you like fountain pens but you must admit, you like the image more than the actual pen.

I think gel pens are more practical tools, but I like the image better as well. To me, fountain pens are like fedoras... people think wearing a fedora makes you classy like some noir detective. Except to everyone else, it makes you look sily.

As another commenter mentioned - when writing something meaningful, doing it with a fountain pen adds an air of magic about it. I've just returned from a 'bucket list' overseas trip, and every day, I wrote in a journal about my experiences. Somehow, doing it with a cheap ballpoint doesn't seem as special as sitting down and getting my deepest emotions and thoughts down on paper with a nice fountain pen.

To re-frame your analogy to suit a more HN centric view: Why would most developers bother with the hassle and maintenance of Linux when they could just slap Windows 10 on a PC and code away in an IDE easily?

I don't like your analogy much because Windows makes me much less efficient, not more. Everything is more hassle, getting the right tools is a pain, etc. I code primarily on OSX and even though I have PyCharm, I find I go much faster with vim. Yes I am old.

In any case, I love my fountain pen. Not expensive, just a Pilot Metropolitan. I don't have the hand stamina that I did back when I had to handwrite practically everything, so I really appreciate the effortless experience of using a fountain pen.

Some people like the process and the gear. Same as with vinyl vs digital music.

I can write faster, for longer periods and getting less tired with a fountain pen.

When I was a student I always took notes with a fountain pen, and I was the only one in the class who could log pretty much everything that was said, and with relatively good handwriting for the speed. A lot of people photocopied my notes!

Maintenance depends on the pen. Some require frequent cleaning, but for example, I have a Platinum Century #3776 that can sit unused for a month and will still write perfectly with no fuss (it has a sealing mechanism that prevents the ink from drying). I use it with Platinum's blue-black ink, which is one of the mythical iron gall inks, but since the nib is gold and the pen is designed so that no other metal parts are in contact with the ink, it's not going to eat my pen any time soon. I think you could give that pen+cartridges combination to anyone and it will probably run for years without maintenance (although I do clean it every few months just in case).

Hey, I would be interested in knowing about pens that do not need regular service and caring especially when not used for longer periods. Could you please suggest some good resources on it (preferably not very costly, if at all) or suggest such fountain pens?

JetPens has good guides:

From this list, I can personally vouch for the Platinum Preppy and Pilot Metropolitan. Though the Preppy is a disposable, the catridges from the non-disposable Platinum pens fit it. You could could even get an eyedropper and refill the cartridge from a bottle of ink.

https://www.jetpens.com/blog/great-beginner-fountain-pens-th...

Most of my collection is in the under $20 range, most under $2.50 and the worst I've had is the ink had dried, which took some soaking in water for a bit to get out, but this was from letting a pen sit unused for months.

Hey, thanks.

I have a Pilot Metropolitan and it dries pretty fast.

Platinum 3776 are good and designed for this use case - the inner cap is supposed to keep inks from drying out even with long periods of no usage. If you buy a restored Parker 51, they're nearly indestructible. Just dip it in a little water to get it flowing again.

The best one I know in this regard is the Platinum #3776 Century, mentioned above. It has a special sealing mechanism so that it can go for months without drying as long as you close the cap. On Amazon you can find Japanese sellers that sell it for around €60/€70. That probably doesn't quite fit "not very costly" in absolute terms, although it's actually quite a bargain for a pen with a gold nib (and a good one, IMO!) that would cost twice as much at a shop, and can last for many years.

I have heard that some Sailor pens also have a similar sealing mechanism, but I don't really know which. I have tried maybe a dozen fountain pens a bunch of inks, but I'm far from being an expert. However, if you go to the forums at http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/ you will find real experts. You can ask for what you need and you will get answers for sure, it's an awesome community.

There is joy in writing. If you want pure efficiency: use a computer, why are you still using pens at all. But if you want to enjoy writing, use whatever makes you enjoy writing, be that the perfect mechanical pencil, gel pens, that parker ballpoint you've been using for 20 years, or a nice fountain pen.

I didn't get it until i used a nice ink and pen. the gliding action is an aesthetic experience .

Ballpoint pens tend to have muchly less consistent lines. You could get much better looking lines just with a rollerball though. I do write mostly with fountain pens but love a week priced Uniball Vision. The lines are as consistent as with a fountain pen without any of the maintenance issues. However, it feels less nice and you don't get to use nice inks.

All I know is that my extra fine Pilot custom 823 beats all my other pens for flow and capacity.

Pilot Varsity. Good enough, no messing with the ink.

diamine is great. oxblood is one of my favorites.

I use a fountain pen exclusively for all my work. I used to use a Waterman Expert[1] but someone I lent it to dropped it and destroyed the feeder. I've tried to get it repaired but it's dead and gone. These days, I use a Noodlers Ahab these days. It has a flexible nib and so I can do some amount of lettering and copperplate calligraphy when I need to (e.g. headings and for emphasis). I've tried a number of inks and I've finally settled on Private Reserve Velvet black[3]. I use other inks for calligraphy because those are with dip pens and the demands are different (specifically Winsor and Newton calligraphic ink).

The Ahab is always in my pocket along with a Rotring 3in1 Tikki[4] mostly for the pencil and for places which demand a ball point pen. I practice calligraphy and often use the Ahab to write nice thank you notes or other such short messages for people.

A sad thing I've found is that much of the paper you get today doesn't go very well with fountain pens. They're either too shiny (typical photocopy paper), too feathery (typical fancy notebook paper) or drink the ink too much. I've found a few companies whose books and papers are manageable and stick to them as much as possible.

Some of the other pens in my collection are a steel broad nibbed Sheaffer. It's a little too fluid for my tastes and I don't use it much. There's a small shop in Kozhikode (the town in Kerala, India where I'm from) who makes handmade pens[5]. It's fun to see. They have a foot powered lathe. They carve out ebonite rods and fix feeders and nibs. I have a few of these.

As someone who's very fond of handwriting (especially cursive) and calligraphy, It's heartening to see a renewed interest in this.

[1] http://www.waterman.com/en/expert/123-black-fountain-pen-gt-...

[2] https://www.gouletpens.com/noodlers-ahab-flex-fountain-pen-m...

[3] https://www.amazon.com/Private-Reserve-Velvet-Black-Bottle/d...

[4] https://www.cultpens.com/i/q/RT16730/rotring-tikky-3-in-1-mu...

[5] http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/253458-some-un...

As someone who writes with his left hand I hate them with a vengeance. Haven't looked at them since primary school.

I am a lefty too, and actually had to change my writing style - well, my pen holding style, in primary school to adapt.

If you hold the pen in a very curled grip where your palm is right next to the nib, then I can see you may have a problem, but I've found that nowadays, most modern inks dry quick enough and don't smear as easily as the inks I used in school 30-40 years ago.

Also, I learned to write slower with a fountain pen, which is probably better for my mental processing. It also means I make less mistakes by focusing on my writing word by word rather than thinking 2 or 3 words ahead while writing.

Get a Lamy Vista "left hander", it's a great, and cheap starter pen. If you get into it, upgrade to a TWSBI, which is a little more expensive but a really lovely fountain pen.

Obvious question: what makes it left handed?

The Lamy lefty nib is the only fountain pen nib that really works for me (so of course I got three and a stack of ink, dammit). It even works for the German schoolkid skinny-line flip, which a simple grind shouldn't do. I've given up thinking about how and just enjoy them!

I use a TWSBI ECO, extra-fine nib with Noodler's Lexington Gray, mostly with Rhodia notebooks. Almost no smudging with that combo.

I'm a lefty as well, and initially my hand would smear the ink as I was writing. I think I had that problem with rollerball pens to begin with, so after I did some research on proper handwriting technique, I learned I needed to hold the pen such that my hand was underneath it much like a right handed person holds it by default. It took some time to adjust but I'm more comfortable writing with any pen now than when I used to have more of a claw grip. Once you get that down, using a fountain pen will never be a problem for you and is far more of a pleasure to write with than most other writing implements will give you.

Why is that? I'm a righty, but I write in Hebrew (Right to Left) so I assume that I would have similar issues to what you face. However I have no problem writing with my fountain pens.

I'm genuinely curious why many lefties have trouble with fountain pens, not trolling.

One thing is the smudging thing (avoided by putting the paper at an angle), another aspect is that left-to-right movements push the pen instead of pulling it, and that might be the difference to Hebrew? Do you do mostly right-to-left strokes inside Hebrew characters, or left-to-right?

Whether I'm writing English or Hebrew, I tend to do the strokes in a downward fashion, in the direction of writing. So English writing goes mostly Northwest to Southeast, and Hebrew writing goes mostly Northeast to Southwest. There are two letters in Hebrew which require a significant upstroke (Aleph א, and in my handwriting Vav ו as well), but I suppose that I've perfected those over the years. Circular letters, such as O or Samech ס, start at the top and end at the top.

I also use a children's fountain pen, the terrific Faber-Castell Scribolino School Fountain Pen, which I find more comfortable and more fluid than fountain pens which have cost me almost 100 Euros. I highly recommend it, you can find them for about $20-$25 on Ebay.

That... kind of sounds like you need to relearn how to write. Which sounds silly, but there are 100% good ways and bad ways to write (both right and left handed writers suffer from insane 'who taught you to write' hand positions). Learning how to properly hold your pen helps a lot with not smudging ink even when it's a long drying ink.

And not unimportantly, a fountain pen requires writing _without_ any pressure on the pen; the ink gets drawn out simply by there being any kind of contact at all, so if you write with a fountain pen the way you're used to writing with a ballpoint pen, or pencil, both of which require pressing into the paper, you're literally doing things wrong (and probably through no fault of your own other than not having realised there might be different ways you need to write).

This is interesting: I'll have to look into relearning how to write.

With regard to the "who taught you to write" hand positions, I wonder if the problem is worse for lefties. My kindergarten teacher actually spent time trying to get me to write with my right hand until my father wrote her a letter clarifying that I was, indeed, left-handed.

The biggest problem with left-handed fountain pen writing is that unless you adopt some horribly bent-over position you’re pushing the nib into the paper instead of dragging it across. That damages pens and leads to horribly scratchy writing, even if you can get over the constant smudging. It’s OK though, there are plenty of other writing implements - personally I chose the keyboard.

Yay for natural horribly bent-over positions!

No question, if you need efficient writing, keyboard every time. And I say that as someone who has plenty of fountain pens and 500+ inks.

People who say "you should do it differently" but without specifying exactly how are just engaging in a mild form of victim-blaming. Or instructing left-handed people to write with their right hand.

I acquired the "overhand" left-handed style at a very early age, which needs a piece of blotting paper under the hand to not smudge everything. This at least is somewhat natural to write with since it's mirrored in the plane of the nib and it's possible to read the word you're currently writing.

To be fair, we're on hacker news. There are hundreds of videos on Youtube that explain it better than I ever could in text if you know to actually look for them (and if no one ever told you to, why would you?), and this is not the crowd that would not be able to find those.

I'm lefthanded and I really doubt this is easily fixable.

From grade 1 to 7 I was exclusively using fountain pens (germany, this is a requirement, so there wasn't a choice) and there was no end of teachers trying to "fix" the lefthanded children in the class.

Writing lefthanded with a ballpoint pen is simply easier than using a fountain pen where I have to either put my hand into a position that cramps after a minute of continuous writing or hover over the paper which also cramps or using a blotting paper, which reduces my ability to keep the last few sentences in mind while writing.

Left-handed writing will also push the pen, inevitably, you will put pressure on it, the light contact required for fountain pens is extremely tired.

After grade 7 I've switched to ballpoint pens, much easier to handle and write. About 4 years ago I managed to find a gas-pressure ballpoint pen which has been the most relaxing way to write.

Unlike normal ballpoint pens, they have gas cartridge behind the ink which expands. They push the ink out of the pen meaning you don't have to press at all to get writing while still getting the benefit of minimal ink usage and quick drying that left-handedness almost requires.

Your teachers shouldn't have tried to "fix" your handedness. They should have taught you valid writing techniques for lefties. A common and fairly easy one is to rotate your paper counter-clockwise 45-90 degrees and write bottom-to-top.

If you're hovering or strongly bending your wrist you've been taught wrong.

Trying writing from right to left. That way, you leave the ink behind and don't smotch it with your hand.

Same. My folks signed me up for a weekend calligraphy course around the same time frame (primary school). I've avoided calligraphy and fountain pens since. I avoid most pencils, too, so I don't end up with graphite all over my hand and smudges all over my paper.

After a reasonable amount of experimentation I've ended up just going with Uni Jetstream 101s because they feel smoother than most ball-points but dry fast enough that I don't get ink on my hands. I played around with modding various pen pieces to assemble a franken-pen but having to trim/tape ink refills wasn't much fun.

I'm always on the lookout for other recommendations from lefties. I've seen a couple in this thread already.

I'm left-handed and I have no problems when using a fountain ink pen... if I write upside down.

Man I forgot how annoying frames pages are when you try to zoom them for readability.

Double annoying when the pages inside the frames have redirects when you try to load them outside the frames. :(

Could someone change this to http://richardspens.com/ref/care/inks.htm? The current link (http://richardspens.com/index_m.html?page=ref/care/inks.htm) is a "please allow us to run arbitrary malicious code on your computer" nag page.

That's a serious accusation.

If you actually look at the code it wants to run, there is nothing malicious. It is just a small amount of (clearly written, not at all obfuscated) JavaScript to do innocuous things on the page, such as help with filling out forms, convert between Roman and Arabic numerals, provide a magnifier, and similar things (not all of which are actually used on that particular page).

It isn't a accusation in the first place; permission to run javascript at all includes permission to run arbitrary malicious code, and I never claimed (and don't care) whether they actually exploit that perrmission.

And none of that changes the fact that the link is to the wrong page.

The page is served over HTTP, so it's permission for anybody who might happen to MITM your connection to run whatever code they like.

That page seems better anyhow, so ok.

... It's now pointing at http://richardspens.com/?page=ref/care/inks.htm. "That page" is http://richardspens.com/ref/care/inks.htm with no ?page= in it. The current one is just a bunch of frame cruft around the original nag page.

Ah ok, I've changed the link to that. For me the one just redirects to the other, though.

I've used fountain pens long ago, but the Tul gel pens are my cherished replacement.

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