Hacker News Reader

Comment by stareatgoats | Hacker News Reader

Great advice, but be aware that there are circumstances where it might not work too well:

- disorganized workplaces run by a paranoid manager (all too common): The tactic would probably be conceived as taking too much own initiative, and 'stealing' 30 minutes from an arbitrary number of employees would not go down well (even if it was in your free time). You could try and get managerial sign-off, but don't count on it. If you really need that job in the first place (it's going to be a rough ride) better do over a beer or similar. It is why 'after work' was invented in the first place after all.

- as a very junior or entry-level employee it would seem like overkill in most teams, and probably not work to your advantage. In that case, and if you're ambitious and want to move quickly, try to get the same information but in a less overt way.

View on HN

This is an incredibly jaded view. Both cases should be encouraging to anyone in a management position. Spending time to understand the lay of the land shows that the new hire is motivated to learn the system they are working on through the other experts on the team. It shows they care, which is a huge win for any project. If a manager truly took issue with this they shouldn’t be managing. It’s also a clear sign to find something else quickly!

And jaded is not good now? Wow I must be really jaded.

Do you think it's normal for software managers to refuse to let their employees schedule 30 minute meetings? That seems absurd to me and would qualify as more dysfunctional than any workplace I've ever been in.

This is knowledge work we're doing here; we're not working the assembly line.

jaded : Bored or lacking enthusiasm, typically after having had too much of something. [0] - hm?

Lacking in enthusiasm, perhaps. There is something to be said for people who venture into every new setting with an optimistic mindset, and not caring if they should tiptoe round, so agree inasmuch.

On the other hand (based on 40 years+ of professional experience), workplaces are in reality on a spectrum regarding these things (not binary good or bad), and peoples seniority as well as their need to take any job in the lower end are on a spectrum as well (some need to take what is provided because of location or other factors). In certain intersections of these factors I'd still say be careful to follow the advice in the linked article very literally.

In the appropriate cases I'd say it was excellent advice though, perhaps that wasn't clear enough.

[0] https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/jaded

That's a pretty bad definition of jaded:

"made dull, apathetic, or cynical by experience or by having or seeing too much of something" [1]

I would say that someone who feels that it's commonplace for managers to refuse to allow new employees to schedule 30 minutes with other members of their team while on-boarding would fit the definition of being overly cynical.

[1] https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/jaded

Not to be nitpicking, but I said 'there are circumstances' which is not the same as 'it's commonplace' (it's actually implying edge cases).

That said, thanks for a better definition of 'jaded' even if not applicable! :-)

as a very junior or entry-level employee it would seem like overkill in most teams

You don't have to start with the senior project manager. Try to find someone who's equally entry-level and been there less than year and talk to them. They'll no doubt be happy to talk and teach you the important things that you actually need to know in your position.

>> They'll no doubt be happy to talk and teach you the important things that you actually need to know in your position

Unless they are jaded from being underpaid or stuck at a position they dislike, which is a very common theme in Eastern Europe and middle East.

Unless they are jaded from being underpaid or stuck at a position they dislike

Which would definitely be something important worth knowing.

As such it shouldn't matter if they spend their 25 minutes going through the architecture of the build system or ranting about their manager, both will teach you something useful.

The article is aimed at a manager or team leader that is joining a new team.

> things you can easily help with, like “we waste a bunch of time in meetings every week” or “we need a dedicated conference room.”

But agreed, a junior could do the same thing in a less overt way.

For the former case, just leave - if they don't want your help then they don't deserve it. In IT there's plenty of work.

I read this comment before reading the article (something I often do) and it intrigued me enough to read the actual article. Then I realized that the article is just saying “talk to people when you start a new job”. If that’s an issue for any manager, regardless of my seniority level, I’ll know I’ve made a wrong decision to join that team.

Cool, happy to inspire!:)

I think the advice in the article was excellent - to the point that your summary quote does it some injustice. But my comment regarded some edge cases, among which the case when a new leader would be compelled to take a job even if workplace was in some disarray. Obviously, if one can pick and choose then it doesn't apply.

>disorganized workplaces run by a paranoid manager (all too common)

You basically can't win in a place like this. It's better to keep your head down and leave as soon as you can and try to see the warning signs before taking the job in future.

If it causes problems... run and never look back.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com