Google ends major OS support for Nexus phones and Pixel tablet | Hacker News Reader

Google ends major OS support for Nexus phones and Pixel tablet

arstechnica.com

61 pointsDeinos76 comments

The iPhone 5S is still supported by Apple and was released on Sept 10th 2013 [1] .

The last iPhone to be not supported by Apple was the iPhone 5 released on September 21, 2012 and ended support on July 19th 2017 [2]. They supported it for almost five years.

The Nexus 6P, Nexus 5X, and Pixel C were released on September 29, 2015. [3] [4]. Their software support ends today on March 7th which is slightly more than two years.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPhone_5S [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPhone_5 [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Nexus [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixel_C

EDIT: I made a mistake in my last statement that I corrected. Thank you child comment :)

> Their software support ends today on March 7th which is less than two years.

If released in September 2015, then two years would be September 2017 and today would be more than two years.

That is not to say that two and a half years is acceptable.

>Their software support ends today on March 7th

This refers to major OS updates only. They get security updates 3 years from the date of sale so these devices will continue to get monthly updates until October (and possibly through December) of this year.

Yes, it is. It also runs like poop.

No, for the animated poop you need iPhone X

This is just pathetic. You buy a piece of hardware that could trivially keep working for 5-8 years, and it becomes actively dangerous to use, not just for the owner but to everyone else (think botnets), after 3 years because the vendor stops giving security updates for its software? This should be illegal.

I am annoyed that my Nexus 6P isn't getting support longer, sure, though there's always LineageOS[1]. I'd say the lack of an SD card slot and user-hostile, hard-to-replace batteries make the 5-8 year lifespan much harder to really imagine, though.

1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LineageOS

Oh, it's not the battery that'll shorten the lifespan of the 5X and the 6P. It's the CPU. I've already had to replace my 5X under warranty twice. The second time was because of the bootloop problem, which will happen to every single device equipped with the Snapdragon 808 eventually.

My phone is basically living on borrowed time. And honestly, the next time it dies, I'm done with high-end devices. Having had to replace my phone twice in under two years has convinced me that I should treat my phones as if they were disposable, and so I'm going to buy my next phone at "disposable" prices. My next phone will probably be a Moto E4 or something in a similar price range (and I'd be willing to buy a $50 Chinese shitphone if only I could find one with AOSP and not some shitty custom UI).

You don't want the cheapest. Better something nice like a Xiaomi Mi A1. It is part of the Android One program (clutter free stock Android, timely updates) and doesnt cost a fortune.

I saw their webpage, and this jumped out at me:

> full metal body

Metal bodies fuck with my synesthesia—the feeling of metal on my fingers makes me ill—so that's a total dealbreaker. It has to be plastic.

I can relate to that. My SO has it too, her auditory and tactile senses being affected. Q: A nice PU bumper doesn't help either?

It looks like it can be rooted with Magisk, which makes it pretty appealing (at least if Xiaomi post factory images you can flash yourself).

Apparently you can just disable the big cores and it will boot: https://www.xda-developers.com/nexus-5x-bootloop-fix-boot-ph...

But mine's running perfectly so far. I even slightly overclocked the big cores. Changed to underclocked right now :D

I tried that when my last phone died. It didn't work.

From what I saw trawling the XDA forums, there's a small percentage of bootloop victims who have all cores affected and not just the big ones, and I was part of that unlucky few.

buy an iphone. Vote with your wallet.

Compounding the issue, maybe not for Google's devices but certainly others', is locking the bootloader so you can't even install an aftermarket ROM derived from open-source projects that are up to date security-wise. I won't name names, but one particularly egregious offender's initials are VZW.

> You buy a piece of hardware that could trivially keep working for 5-8 years, and it becomes actively dangerous to use, not just for the owner but to everyone else (think botnets), after 3 years because the vendor stops giving security updates for its software? This should be illegal.

The simple way to make it illegal to produce potential botnet-hosts is to force manufacturers to remotely brick all hardware they no longer support.

> after 3 years because the vendor stops giving security updates for its software? This should be illegal.

Feature updates stopped, security updates did not. The phones are still receiving monthly security patches and will continue to do so. Google did not stop those.

From the article:

> The Nexus 6P and 5X launched with an update policy of two years for major OS updates and three years for security updates

Security updates "are not guaranteed" after 3 years.

Source: https://support.google.com/nexus/answer/4457705

Why do I have a feeling... that their next move will be... to sandbox everything. Everything goes through Google's servers. They'll advertise it as a universal firewall that will protect you 24/7. "Having continously updated software means no more outdated software!".

And then using software that has known exploits (so old versions of Android/iOS) will be illegal...

And then they will censor comparisons of Winnie the Pooh with the dear leader...

Before you say it should be strictly illegal, consider a few consequences:

- You're going to end up paying for that support in the cost of the phone or through annual licensing anyway. Would you really prefer that vs buying a new phone with latest gizmos vs buying a second-hand phone with semi-latest gizmos?

- You've just created a moat for larger companies who can absorb the costs of maintaining older systems.

The only issue I see here is the bot-net threat. That's a negative externality that no one's responsible for currently, and we can definitely be more creative about the policy than forcing people to support old tech.

Maybe we force users to run software without known vulnerabilities? Perhaps then people would then demand more open technologies, but perhaps it'll further entrench the disposable tech paradigm.

Maybe we just force companies to open source unmaintained software? Maybe we do this in tandem with above?

Maybe we only penalize companies and organizations with a certain sized user base?

The possibility space is really massive, and we technologists really need to sit down and think through the ramifications of each proposal.

Is it also dangerous to use your TV, router or any other electronic device that hasn't received a single update since it left the factory? Should the sale of those devices also be illegal? How many updates has the software and firmware in your car received? Shouldn't it be illegal to be on the road in a car with obsolete software? Yet, according to you it's pathetic and should be illegal to use a smartphone that's only received 2 years of OS updates and 3 years of security updates.

>You buy a piece of hardware that could trivially keep working for 5-8 years, and it becomes actively dangerous to use

Dangerous to use? In case you weren't aware, the majority of the damage inflicted on consumers and businesses is perpetrated by IOT botnets and infected Windows computers.

The irony of stopping major OS support for older phones because you introduced yet another layer of abstraction to make major OS support for older phones easier.

Yup. And the sadness of being dependent on SoC vendor's kernels/drivers. Basically only Apple is capable of fully supporting their phones, because no one company does as much of their tech stack in-house as Apple. (Samsung is close, but does not really understand software... and I say this stuff as a long-time android-only user, and Samsung employee...)

Help me https://postmarketos.org/, you're my only hope.

I don't really know what changed, but I used to be the guy who always wanted the new phone (or <insert really any "device" here>), but ever since I got my 5X I just haven't wanted anything more hardware-wise. I really hope that some of the long-life, open source, replacement OSs for phones take off.

There is hope. Checkout: https://forum.xda-developers.com/nexus-5x/development

Oh man, the 5X was such a piece of junk at the end of its useful time as a phone. I never really liked it, while the Pixel 2 I'm using now I can definitely see myself using it for a bit longer.

> end of its useful time as a phone

Huh? My 5X feels like new to me, absolutely love it. Running LineageOS (just upgraded to 15.1 Oreo), never had any problems.

I really like my 5x. It's gone back to LG for the bootloop fix once. Hopin I get at least another 2 years out of it.

There is a comment I remember from slashdot a million years ago after yet another gmail design. I'm paraphrasing, but was something along the lines of, when is Google going to stop redesigning things and just position all the UI elements randomly every time you open gmail?

I'm starting to feel similarly about major Android release.

Just for example, why move the clock? Why? After almost a decade of looking at the upper right, I'm going to have to hunt for it every time I need it.

I would totally run that experiment on April 1. Run a multi-armed bandit to pick the best UI and voila! The perfect crowd sourced user interface design.

They knew it themselves, even. At one point a favorite pastime of the Android team was counting how many clocks were displayed:

https://youtu.be/rimXGaUdaLg?t=48m1s

For comparison; the iPhone 5s from September 2013 is still receiving updates, and still runs like a charm.

> and still runs like a charm.

Not according to the rest of the world: http://bgr.com/2018/03/06/iphone-6s-speed-test-old-vs-new-ba...

edit: I guess I was wrong, though I can't find any evidence to suggest that the 5s is exempt from this behavior other than "some reddit users reported it doesn't happen to them"

The 5s was not throttled.

Though I see a difference between "obsoleted to prop up sales of new gadgets" and "throttled to improve stability", Apple failed at comms here.

But it's the modern mantra to do it anyway and apologize if someone complains. Cause really, why spend time/money in advance of a possible non-issue?

Free market decided long ago customers were the product, not the customer. We will be treated how they want and appear to put up with it just fine, given the stock market.

More info on this support page:

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208387

> For iPhone 6, iPhone 6 Plus, iPhone 6s, iPhone 6s Plus, iPhone SE, iPhone 7, and iPhone 7 Plus, iOS dynamically manages performance peaks to prevent the device from unexpectedly shutting down so that the iPhone can still be used.

Well, it runs but not exactly like a charm. It works and you can work with it but you have to put up with a lot of lag.

—- Sent from my iPhone 5s

lag that didn't used to be there when you bought it...

My greatest regret is upgrading to iOS 11. What a shame!

I use a 5s as well. I cracked the screen on my first one but I'll be replacing it to use the phone as a hardware key soon.

The only time I suffer lag is sometimes with the share button in Safari. My storage was chronically full on my last one, and that didn't seem to affect anything. My batteries still last a handful of hours, but the 5s wasn't part of the iOS voltage-limiting patches, so I don't know if that would be a cause.

I'd try a factory reset then restoring from backup.

It happens since my upgrade to ios 11, it dis not before. Sad. I’ve already tried everything... Thanks.

Apps take 5-10 secs to open, whatsapp is especially slow, etc. Once you are in an app, everything goes more or less ok, though.

I think we also need to discuss how long all these phones were on sale. Sure, if you bought a brand new iPhone in Sep 2013, you're still getting updates.

But if you bought the iPhone 5c (which was sold by Apple until August 2015), you're out of luck -- it is no longer supported by iOS 11.

I don't know how long other companies sell their models, but Apple typically sells every iPhone model for 3 years.

For customers it's not as important how long a model is supported after it was released, but rather how long it is supported after you buy it!

I think that really is a great point. If Google actually sold their phones for more than 24 months, they'd stop supporting software updates before they stopped selling brand new phones!

Would you buy a Dell, HP or Lenovo today if Windows 10 would only get software updates two years after it was released (July 29, 2015...)?

To be sure, phones (and computers) don't need software (feature) updates, necessarily. They can still perform functions (and install apps) long after the updates stop coming.

Security updates, on the other hand, should have a guarantee more inline with computers - say 5 years after the product is no longer sold. (Of course, that's much more ambiguous then "2 years after release date" but 5 years for security doesn't seem unreasonable to me.)

This comparison requires context.

-----------------

First, timelines:

Nexus 5X

Released: October 22nd, 2015

Discontinued: October 5th, 2016 - (12 months from release)

Mainstream Software Support Ended: December 5th, 2017 (13 months from discontinuation, 25 months from release)

iPhone 5C

Released: September 20th, 2013

Discontinued: September 9th, 2015 (24 months from release)

Mainstream Software Support Ended: July 19th, 2017 (22 months from discontinuation, 46 months from release)

-----------------

Next, positioning:

iPhone 5c: Bottom of the lineup, released as a budget/$0 contract option in comparison to the rest of the iPhone line.

Nexus 5X: Flagship of the Nexus line. You could argue the Nexus 6P was the flagship, but it's irrelevant as it was also released, discontinued and exited support on the same days. Point is, these were the top-of-the-line Nexus phones at the time.

-----------------

Here is how I see it:

Apple had a reduced support lifecycle for a bottom-of-the-line experimental phone that they never repeated. They typically support a phone for 3-5 years, this one was 2-4 years depending if you count from release or discontinuation date. This was still longer than the support life cycle for the flagship, top of the line Nexus phones, the only Android phones with the reputation and stated goal of offering extended software support. They managed to make it just over 1-2 years.

I don't care how you slice it, that's embarrassing. Even the flagships can't begin to approach Apple's support timeline for their worst and most neglected device. Throw in non-flagships, even from just the major manufacturers, and it just gets depressing. There are phones being sold right now that will never see an update after the customer purchases them. They've exited support before the customer even unwraps them.

I think any way you look at it, Apple is the only company who can be trusted to provide a reasonable support lifecycle, regardless of when you buy the phone.

I'm still on my Nexus 5. There hasn't been any phone worth upgrading to, that I'm aware of. If I knew that the Pixel would be so over the top expensive I have upgraded to the 5X at the time it was released but I was hoping that skipping a release would be worth it. I wouldn't mind a Pixel though, I'm just not going to pay $1000+ (AUD) for a phone.

For me the Nexus 5 was the last phone that had a great form factor, good enough features and was sold at a reasonable price.

I was a long-time Nexus 5 user and upgraded to the Essential PH-1 last year and can't say I regret the decision. The 5 is still my favorite all-time phone given context, but the PH-1 is a pretty significant step up and has one of the prettiest form factors I've experienced. Some owners have experienced teething issues with the device, but it's been super smooth for me and I've been impressed with the speed of the updates (as you'd expect being an Andy Rubin company).

That's actually a great suggestion. I was looking at this last year but completely forgot about it.

For what is worth the 5 is better than the 5X in almost every dimension (I regretted switching). (And the 5 has a chance of still working after 5 years, you're lucky if a 5X is not dead from bootloop after 2).

I loved my 5. Wish it had full Fi support or I wouldn't have upgraded.

I had the Nexus 5 until last month. Was nearly a perfect phone. Unfortunately the battery couldn't make it through a day (even with light usage), and you can't find a good replacement; replacement batteries are either OEM forgeries or cheap generics with questionable quality control. I ended up with the Essential Phone, which has worked out very well and seemed like a good value at $425. I can't justify to myself paying $600+ for a premium phone.

EDIT: It's just a coincidence another poster mentioned the Essential phone. We aren't spammers! But for me the Essential phone, after it dropped in price to around $400, feels like a successor to the Nexus line: a good-valued uncluttered phone, with decent specs.

You dodged a bullet with the 5x though with LG's notorious bootloop issue. I bought two, one from amazon for myself and one from google store for my wife. Both of them bootlooped, mine after 12 months and my wife's after 20 months. LG took in my phone for repair and returned it back as is claiming "water damaged" (although I didn't remember getting it wet). Google was gracious enough sending a replacement for my wife's 5x, 8 months after the warranty expired.

I'll be damned if I buy another LG product again in my life.

I had a bit of boot loop, sometimes it would restart itself for no apparent reason. There was an issue with the on/off button. I took the whole phone apart and cleaned it out with a big brush. It was full of pocket lint, dust, etc. Even removed the on/off button (which is a fiddly little thing). It had a bunch of gunk on it (probably from my hands, you know, the stuff you'll find on your mouse after a while). Cleaned it out and put it back together. No issues since.

This isn't surprising. Google has had their device EOL plans up and public for many moons now: https://support.google.com/nexus/answer/4457705?hl=en#nexus_...

My frustration is that you used to be able to buy a used Nexus phone from craigslist, ebay or really anyone and know it was going to be ROMable. Now we have 2 different Pixel phones. The Verizon models and Google models(which have an unlocked bootloader). It has made the resell market an absolute pain. For me the disappearance of the Nexus will be the disappearance of a guaranteed flashable phone

I own a Nexus 5X and I'm very satisfied with it. Even the battery is holding up after 2 years of daily usage and loading from <20% to ~90%. While it's sad to see that I wont get Android 9, I'm happy with the Android updates I got for my phone. It never got slower, rather quicker with every update. At least I can count on Google giving me security updates once a month.

What do you use your 5X for though? I couldn't get more than 2 hours of video streaming on mine in a single charge and it was less than 1 year old.

I regularly watch Netflix on mine and I can get about 3 hours with 90% charge and then have some left over for other stuff.

Maybe it's because I only have about 20 non-Google apps installed, of which are 3 web browsers, 2 are chat apps, 2 CardDAV and CalDAV apps, a better calendar, and Spotify, Netflix, Twitch, and Amazon Video. All Google apps except Maps, YouTube, Calendar, Messages, Camera, and Phone got deactivated. If anything looks like it's using a resource hungry background service it doesn't need, it simply gets uninstalled.

What I did from the beginning to keep the battery in a good shape was to never load over night to 100%. I plug in my phone before showering and eating breakfast in the morning and this loads it up to 90%. But I don't plan my day around charging my phone, even when it sounds like it - when my phone needs charging, I charge it.

One thing I also did, that might impact battery performance: I deactivated animations entirely. They are unnecessary and keep me waiting for things I could do a lot faster. As a side-effect some loading spinners aren't animated anymore and show a static circle shaped arrow but that's okay for me.

Title is misleading - should say "Google ends major OS support for Nexus 5x, 6p, and Pixel C"

The 6p and Pixel C aren’t even 3 years old.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nexus_6P

People probably bought them 2 years ago.

Right - on sale around November 2015? 2 years OS, 3 years security. I actually got a Nexus 6P in July 2017 (under $300 like new). It's a great phone - we'll see how it's running in December when the security updates dry up. Maybe it'll be time to get something else if I'm worried about unpatched security flaws.

Android P isn’t going to be released until later this year. So if you ignore prerelease builds, these devices will have had the latest OS for about three years after they first went on sale.

They didn’t stop selling them until Oct 2016 so that’s barely more than a year for some.

For some their contract/lease hasn't even run out yet. This is ridiculous.

In general if you buy android, you basically should never expect any support or upgrades what so ever. If there is an update, count yourself lucky.

I got a Pixel C for my mom when I got my launch Pixel in 2016 and have been extremely disappointed in the lack of application and feature parity on the C, despite being on 8.1.

Luckily, I can just switch it over to an open project like Lineage OS (limited to 14.1/Android 7.1) or one of the many on XDA, but this isn't a choice for all hardware.

Because I've had this happen before, the capability to put my own choice of OS on the device just happened to inform my decision to purchase it.

How is it misleading? Pixel C is the only Pixel tablet Google ever released, and Nexus 5X and 6P were the last phones from the Nexus line, before they switched to Pixel line. Ending support for these devices means ending "major OS support for Nexus phones and Pixel tablet". Support for earlier versions had already been dropped.

Google released couple of Nexus tablets, the Nexus 7 was my favorite tablet ever.

The title, as of the time of writing this comment is "Google ends major OS support for Nexus phones and Pixel tablet." It is not misleading.

I have a Nexus 6 (Not 6P) and I'm running Android 8.1! Although it is officially dead, but the good thing about Nexus/Pixel phones is that it is easy to port the new version of android to them (unofficially). My phone works better with the custom ROM than with the stock android! I know the average person won't go through all the trouble to flash a custom ROM on their phone, but this was one of the reason that I bought a Nexus in the first place, the community support at XDA.

Edit: Nexus 6 came to market in 2014. I bought it in 2015 and after years of usage, it has never been faster and snappier. Android 8.1 is quick and it gave my phone a new life.

I'm interested in a phone like this for members of my family who are constantly replacing their phones purely for "snapiness". Are there off the shelf vendors where you can buy phones without bloatware, with decent upgrade paths? I would so happily pay for this.

I think Google provides the longest upgrade period among all Android phones (Which clearly is not enough). But the good thing about Nexus/Pixel is that the bootloader is unlocked (if you buy Pixel from the Google store not Verizon). An unlocked bootloader enables you to flash cutom ROMs on your phone. For snappiness, most of new phones with Android 8.1 are fast enough. But again, if there is a big community for that phone in XDA (like with Nexus phones), and the bootloader is unlocked, you will be able to flash new versions of Android for a long time.

If you like snappy I do recommend to go into the developer options and disabling or reducing the animation time. It feels a lot snappier even if you had no problems to begin with (some apps do break if you set animation to 0)

That’s beyond pathetic. I purchased a new Nexus 6P from Best Buy in November 2016, and now it’s not going to be updated anymore, but my grandmas iPhone 6 (Fall 2014) will be?

Why is this a surprise? Google's has shown a pattern that they don't care about your Android hardware since they partnered with HTC and released their first branded phone.

- Nexus One / Paperweight Owner

Reply on news.ycombinator.com