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Comment by psyc | Hacker News Reader

I’ve also earnestly tried switching to Linux many times, over 15 years. My most recent attempt was just a month ago, after becoming infuriated by Windows Update.

It’s not terrible, but taking all of my daily work into account, it’s still not feasible on the whole. And the problems are about the same as always. Hardware compatibility, arduous installations and config (yak shaving), and stuff just not working. And the pervasive pattern, inherited from open source itself, that things have recursive dependencies, each involving their own incredible journey of configuration and workarounds. Always the journey, never the destination of getting work done. In the end, I clean installed Windows, set it up to minimize annoyance, and got on with work.

I feel that, much like Blender, Linux requires a certain mindset. I suspect that mindset resembles either masochism or Stockholm Syndrome. I still have no complaints about MacOS.

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Linux runs fine on desktop. I haven't had a significant issue in years on hardware that has the benefit of reliable wall power.

That’s good to know. It’s true my last attempt was on a low end laptop. My qualms about my daily applications remain. I’m sure I’ll keep trying.

Linux SysAdmin here with 20 years’ experience: I love it on the server and hate it on the desktop. Always use the right tool for the job.

But that’s a good analogy for this article. UNIX-like devices did eventually dominate the world, just not in the form factor we were expecting. I’m writing this on my pocketable UNIX device. You’ve probably heard of it; it’s called an iPhone. If one adds up all the devices in the world, Microsoft only owns a fraction of all of the operating systems installed.[1] Like the store keepers in this article, Microsoft failed to adapt but continued to rely on an increasingly failing business model (desktops). There will still be a place for Windows in 20 years but it will be a niche product like macOS is today. Unless they quickly adapt.

I certainly prefer to Amazon something than go to a store. This story is one of struggling to protect a failing business model. Were I one of those business owners I would spend all of my (increasingly) free time learning to either sell online or tweak my service so that it’s so compelling that people would willingly dress, drive out, risk crowds, and pay more. I would get online (hah!) and find the world’s best retailers, find out what they’re doing, and emulate their success.

There are still buggy whip manufacturers[2] but they learned what was needed to adapt. Adapt or get run over.

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_sys...

[2] https://www.uswhip.com/product/buggy-whips/

> I love it on the server and hate it on the desktop

It's an equal nightmare to develop on windows and deploy on Linux. But it's true. I have Linux systems running for couple of years with no downtime at all.

Not even for kernel updates?

Yes it requires an restart for kernel but for one machine I never did for an year

I've found Linux usually works great on low end desktops with limited use (such as web browsing) but I've had many problems with modern GPUs and multiple displays. I upgraded to a 4k monitor and wanted to use my old monitor as a secondary and it required manual editing of configurations to support a setup with two monitors and two different resolutions. This is stuff that has worked on Windows or Mac for decades that Linux still hasn't figured out.

You don't buy a random laptop and hope it supports mac os right? How about buy something with linux instead of buy the cheapest junk you can get and hope it supports linux?

Hardware compatibility is a good start. Your tone aside, you have a point. But that's only the first of many problems with Linux.

While there are problems with linux I'm not sure you have correctly identified them.

"And the pervasive pattern, inherited from open source itself, that things have recursive dependencies, each involving their own incredible journey of configuration and workarounds."

You get software from repos. Your system figures out the dependencies for you I literally have no idea where you could possibly be coming from.

"Hardware compatibility"

Buy compatible hardware.

"arduous installations"

Don't know what you are talking about. Given well supported hardware installation is incredibly easy and has been for over a decade.

" feel that, much like Blender, Linux requires a certain mindset. I suspect that mindset resembles either masochism or Stockholm Syndrome. I still have no complaints about MacOS."

You accept that MacOS doesn't run on just any hardware, buy hardware from a vendor who sell you MacOS preinstalled on supported hardware and experience no issues. Can I propose that you would have similar lack of issues with a vendor who sells prepackaged linux solutions?

Linux is bad in some ways but you are mostly kinda bad at linux. People installing hackintoshes seem to exist in a world that is fraught with pitfalls and workarounds but nobody expects MacOS to work out of the box on whatever. Linux by virtue of actually working on 99% of machines catches flack for only working optimally on 80%.

To boot you wonder why apple who has received thousands of dollars from you works better than a product which you provide zero support for. Its super likely that if you and others who wanted open source solutions to work for them had spent 15 years giving open source software 10% of the support provided to closed source solutions you might have something closer to what you want.

>Buy compatible hardware.

A lot of people have hardware and aren't looking to buy something shiny and new just to use Linux.

It's an immediate no-go for me to recommend anyone Linux when their machine is not support out of the box (sans nvidia blob, some people insist on it)

Buying shiny new hardware isn't needed, any old Thinkpad is bound to have good Linux support, plus it'll be upgradeable and durable!

Use the right tool for the job, avoid assuming you need the most expensive tool possible!

There is plenty of old hardware that won't properly work for modern linux distros, either by missing firmware packages or software not running on the CPU anymore (such as on an old Thinkpad of mine from 1998, modern distro's don't properly run, a lot of stuff fails with invalid opcodes or segfaults. An ancient copy of knoppix runs (with kernel 2.3))

Even then, most people don't buy with "it must run linux" in mind, they grab whatever has good sounding numbers on it.

Heh, wasn't thinking of going that old, more like a Thinkpad T430 (can be had for $150) or newer depending on budget. Any of that line will run your distro of choice without issue.

The manufacturer of the machine or components thereof who has all the specs and time put in the work that enables windows to support the hardware.

Free software development time is finite and information on some hardware is notably absent.

If you desire better support pool money to pay for improvements to particular hardware. Anything else is hoping people are willing to expend their resources for free so that you don't have to.

In the meantime I'm guessing most people intend to eventually buy a new machine. Upgrade time is a great time to think about trying Linux. Instead of

Linux it will run on whatever terrible machine you got on sale at Walmart with a Vista certified sticker.

Think instead...

Make your next computer a Linux machine.

Microsoft pays good money to vendors to improve the hardware for windows.

Outside of hardware primarly used under Linux, you won't have much luck paying any vendor money to improve that situation. You'll have to suck it up and make it work anyway by patching the kernel.

>Linux it will run on whatever terrible machine you got on sale at Walmart with a Vista certified sticker.

Vista? I have upgraded people to Linux with 98 stickers and earlier. These people won't buy new machines, the current machine will have to work.

There won't be a "next computer" for some of them.

I’m as baffled by your perspective on configuration as you are by mine. I’d spend half my time working to improve userspace if I could financially afford to. “You’re bad at Linux” is the worst way I can think of to win anyone over.

Nobody is paying me to sell you Linux. I'm honestly more interested in countering what I see as low quality information borne of lack of experience and knowledge.

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