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Comment by coinerone | Hacker News Reader

You mean like Berlin, where you get max. 36k€ a year for Full Stack Dev and pay 13k€ for Rent? I think the main reason for Cities in Europe become tech hubs is the extreme low cost for Devs and other tech people.

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Oh come on, you can't even get a junior for less than 45k in Berlin. Most of my professional circle are well over 60, 70. If you're getting 36 as a (good) full stack I'd seriously recommend switching jobs.

edit: do you mean net salary?

New grads can get 50k in Berlin. You'd be an idiot to move there for less than 60-70k these days. I'm constantly hit up by recruiters who're trying to lure me back for 80-90k.

Talked with dozens of Berlin's startups. I don't think that any of them offered more than 55-60k for mid/senior dev roles. Some were trying even to lowball below 50k. Businesses paying more flood the candidates with quizzes, assignments, and give post-contractual non-compete to sign. They suck the sweet labor desperation dry.

Are you exaggerating or serious? Would it be too difficult to live there if I make ~45k?

That's an exaggeration. Most salaries are places in the 50-60k range and if you are a senior you'll get a salary from 60-70k. As a new grad/junior, you'll be getting around 40-45k.

45k/year is enough for a single person or even a couple living more frugal.

The lowest junior engineer job grade at my previous company started at 50k + 8% bonus, and salaries went up to 90k base + 15% bonus for a principal engineer, with a pretty linear progression for the titles in between (mid-level, senior, lead). This company pays above average, but it's not the best paying in town, not even close. There are few ones (Amazon, eBay, SAP, car makers... even a few startups with deep pockets) that pay more than that.

If single, you will have a blast in Berlin with 45k. If you're moving with a dependent, that's a bit tight (as a newcomer, you will never find the best deals regarding accommodation, there's a fair supply of newly built apartments in Berlin, but they aren't cheap).

It's bad here but it's not nearly that bad. If you're a good full stack dev you can easily make 50k, and 9k rent+utilities yearly will buy you a very reasonable lifestyle.

Sounds a lot like Amsterdam to me. I always thought German speaking countries valued engineers more. But perhaps it's just the Swiss?

In Germany there are Places where you get paid very well, like Munich or Hamburg. But Berlin is like the Cheap and hyped City where you can pay less and find good employees who are willing to pay high rent, sometimes half of the monthly earnings, only to work for a Startup or a Big Name Company.

In Berlin the salary/cost of living ratio is way better than Munich or Frankfurt. Have a look on Numbeo Cost of living comparison [1]

[1] https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?cou...

Those numbers feel really off. 13k/year rent means ~1100 € monthly rent. That's the average rent for a nice apartment in a nice area. If you're making 36k € yearly salary then it might make more sense to live in a shared room for 400/month or get a better (normal) paid job.

36K euros a year "Brut" (before social security) was my starting salary in the Paris area. I know that Berlin is a little bit cheaper (in term of rent) than Paris but I would expect it to be about the same as Paris in term of salary.

For information in Paris, currently I'm at ~50K a year "Brut", which means ~35K a year "Net" ("go home" salary).

I'm costing ~75K per year to my employer in term of salary (there are taxes on his side to).

My rent, for a small flat (22 square meters) in Paris is around 10K per year.

My taxes are around 6K per year.

I'm an SRE/software engineer with ~8 years experience.

So in the end including your taxes, you have 29k to live with (19k if you remove the rent) while costing 75k to your employer.

Ladies and gentlemen of the world, this is what is costs to have our (indeed very nice) social security/health insurance !

You should get better at negotiation and/or with your skills. Many companies struggle to hire any dev below 50K.

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