If this sort of thing is where we're all headed as the world polarizes further, Hacker News is doomed. But perhaps we can stave doom off for a while longer. I'm going to ban the accounts that behaved the worst below and then shut down this thread.
Deleted comment
Also, why do you say ‘stuck’? Growth is still rapid despite ~4mil refugees, a war next door, and a difficult geopolitical environment. Europe collectivel lost their shit over a million refugees!
Banning wikipedia was stupid, but hardly matters to anyone with 3 neurons to rub together. Even free browser-extension class VPNs are enough to get around that ban (and the bans on porn sites as well)
I am sure many top tier developets and other talent have left Turkey, but this is a common problem across the middle class world. Look at tiny, free Estonia or other EU countries near Turkey. They are worse off already and are de-populating rapidly (bulgaria, romania, etc)
Turkey is far from perfect, but I continue to support AKP because they continue to deliver. The main opposition (CHP) are members of the Socialist Internationale and are unreformed old leftists. They ran the country for most of its Republican history and didnt deliver anything for the vast majority of Turks. We didnt get economic growth or freedom. Just google around for the level of Kurdish support for Erdogan, i think many on this site would be surprised.
Looking at Turkey in its own bubble might look great to you, but try to do so by also taking into consideration all that is not so rosy. You can ignore rampant corruption by showing off with the figures that go up, but you cannot possibly ignore the unsustainability thereof.
Finally, Turkey has had a turbulent past, even recently so. Attributing the bad times only to the parties in charge during those periods is an ignorant thing to do. AKP and Erdoğan got very lucky with the timing, and I strongly believe that any other party could have done a similar, and even better, job in terms of economic indicators.
https://www.google.de/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&m...
Also, I searched for the Kurdish support: https://i.imgur.com/bWnm5Sb.png
I can say that I wasn't surprised.
If you like there is plenty and increasing and opposite to what NY Times claim they are all free to write and be communicated:
http://www.abcgazetesi.com/ http://halktv.com.tr/ http://www.diken.com.tr/
Sorry for them, they are not publishing in English. For your information take a look at this kind of news they report: http://www.diken.com.tr/thy-yakit-krizini-yalanladi-haber-ge...
They even report a delay, how come they will be silenced?
It was a crime to even claim to be Kurdish in the past. Elected mayors were jailed simply for saying they were ethnic kurds. Wearing a headscarf was illegal in schools, courts, etc. Even an AKP president’s wife was stopped from wearing a headacarf in a public hospital while visiting a wounded soldier!
In a way, I guess its a sign of Turkey and AKP’s success that we are now being held to European standards. There are 100 journalists in jail currently. Previous adminsitrations would have simply sent the government deatb squad to their doors and ended the matter rather more swiftly rather than subject itself to such Western critism over public statistics.
As far as numbers of imprisoned journalists are concerned, Chinese standards would be an improvement. 150 journalists[1] doesn't sound like that much, until you realize that's something like half the global number...
[1] http://europeanjournalists.org/turkey-journalists-in-jail/
There's a (German) article[1] by Günther Nollau, former president of the Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution, that might be of interest. The title translates to something like Sympathy alone is no criminal offence.
I have only cursorily followed what has been happening in Turkey, but newspapers getting shut down, rulings by the constitutional court getting ignored and a president who unironically cited Nazi Germany as inspiration for a functioning presidential system raise quite a few alarm bells...
http://www.dw.com/en/europol-probes-islamic-state-created-so...
> Followers of Harun Yahya wear drag make-up and practice a “sexed-up, Disney version of Islam” that helps promote conservative Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan’s vision of a modern, Muslim Turkey.
Of course, he also writes for the Huffington Post: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/author/harun-yahya
To be precise: than 2 of them, Bulgaria and Romania. Out of the 28.
https://www.google.de/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&m...
> Don't get mad at him, you can work around it anyway, and he is great for us.
> Don't get mad at him, Israel is the real bad guy.
> Don't get mad at him, America is just as bad.
> Don't get mad at him, he is saving Syria and struggling to keep his nation together.
The next time I am outside the Turkish Embassy and Erdogan's associates are out there seeing if the toe of their boots fit firmly in the mouths of Liberal Turks, Kurdistan supporters, anyone who doesn't love the AKP, I'll remind those getting curbstompped that they shouldn't be mad at Erdogan because everyone else is at fault.
I say, let it go worse, crash and burn. I keep thinking about the wonders that process did to many nations.
Well, maybe Erdoğan knows something we don't and in the end I'll look like those people who didn't invest in bitcoin when it was worth not even a Euro. Maybe Islamic Dictatorship was the solution after all? Hah. Never mind. I couldn't care less.
With the changing tides, these days, it feels like everyone needs to be, or at least needs to act like, a nationalist. I won't and I also won't write this stuff from throwaway accounts.
Where does "love for Turkey" come from? Patriotism / nationalism has been part of Turkish culture for a long time; the origin can be attribute to the state-supported mythology that recounts the succession of dozens of Turkish states over millenia, the Independence War and all that. It can also be attribute to the "collectivist" or nomadic origins of culture and language, the actual history as influenced by the fact that ethnic Turks moved to present day Turkey (to the extent culture and language can be traced; maybe that is not much).
There is no more Turkish republic anymore... but whatever you think of politics and whether a nation is something that can be loved, whether you are personally affected or not, I think seeing a democracy go crash and burn is disturbing.
Erdoğan has successfully built a climate of fear where expat Turkish folks are afraid to voice criticism because they have relatives in Turkey. (Sure, it is no different for, say, China today; but IMHO it was never as bad for so many people in Turkey. It was certainly just as bad for fewer people before).
A majority of votes can be organized for populist crude nationalist ideas. However, it is very sad that after the AKP claimed democratization and achieved stability, it swung back to create the same conditions that have created brain-drain before have been recreated.
And far worse, so that the whole development path for Turkey is blocked for decades to come.
There are bright and capable people who for these short-sighted reasons will never succeed; it isn't rational for a leader, even for one who only seeks to extract wealth from a country, to follow such a strategy. So it is just a waste. Which wonders will come out of it? Another authoritarian state.
The overall cake could have been bigger and everybody could have benefited. And the irony is - like with Trump - that the people who think they are in control because they voted AKP are going to be the ones who will suffer and lose most.
If you want "I don't care" to be your shield of protection, I can understand and respect that... but it is disheartening that there doesn't seem to be much that one can do as an individual.
And it is quite possible that if the majority of Turkish support this system, then there may not be a way to avoid it. However, since you live in Germany: the Nazi party also got in control by dismantling the democracy, and we won't be able to say "I don't care" the crimes against humanity they committed. There are disturbing parallels.
You could probably guess that I still hurt inside a little bit when I suggest that I'd shut my eyes to the catastrophe happening in my homeland. My point is, with the despair caused by the lack of things to do and the abundant real-life "Ididocracy" going on, I got used to it to the point that I can ignore it. I don't want to live my life fighting an uphill battle against brainwashed folks.
In the unlikely event that it happens here as well, I guess I'd just take my wife and flee... again. Maybe I could say that not caring is not my shield, it's my only rational move.
Other countries have no other choice, but to restrict Internet access as this is a cheaper way to achieve same.
When I see some news title: "Turkey is restricting the Internet", I deduce a) we are being manipulated in this very moment in fine ways by countries of first group via this news title, and b) it seems Turkey has no means to fight back on same manipulation level, so they have to restrict Internet usage.
Not a justification for anyone to influence Internet, but also not that simple as the title suggests.
Also apparently, Ms./Mrs.CARLOTTA GALL does not give any damn about reflecting realities. Rather she consciously prefers to be an instrument of perception management. It is a shame for her to give Adnan OKTAR as an example. She probably did not do her homework about him. Also, how the hell she just contacted the OKTAR cult with some freedom seeking activity? Is she mad? The guy even has a medical report for insanity, he did not get awarded as insane in near history, it goes to 1980s...
Moreover, the beloved Turkish left, the amount of intelligence operations Turkey leftist movements has been part of may be enough to eradicate the whole European governments, you can call it EU if you want, after WWII... It is partially also true for rightist but at least they are not trying to denigrate their own country...
I hope US public will try to know my country and our nation/nations, there are many-including Arabs, Kurds, Circassians, Armenians, Greek, Hebrew etc. better and get their blinders,CARLOTTA GALL kind of blinders-there are many of them out there, off. And I also hope that US government and state get their shit straight because it will be helpful both countries and their nations...